To feel everyone is anti trans?

[Kitjo]

I'm well aware of current US views led by Trump - but are these views generally held/supported in the UK? Of course I understand opinions on NHS gender reassignment funding, as well as controversies over trans women in sport. Needless to say I'm fully aware of concerns over women's safety issues. Are there any sympathisers or supporters out there? What about trans masculine folk who are surely no threat to women's safety or sport? None of these people would choose such a hard life, socially, financially, physically, mentally, emotionally... am I alone in thinking a bit of kindness and compassion towards the trans community might be appreciated for the massive personal struggles they have to face? I am open minded to hearing and understanding your views.

In a world where girls and women are still being abused, sexually, physically, and frankly still struggling to get to the top in many places I feel far too much energy and attention has gone towards the legal status of trans people. I don’t say rights, because every person, trans or otherwise, has a right to feel and be safe. And be loved and receive kindness. But the fact of the matter is when for example female loos are opened up to men too, it is proven to be dangerous to women (albeit usually by non trans men abusing the open space). And I’m sorry but except in very rare cases, when you are a trans woman (man turned woman?) you are still very much a man. Making trans people feel included, by doing absurd things like calling mothers people who lactate, or making everyone regardless of gender be asked whether they could be pregnant or not, shows the pendulum has swung too far.
I agree 100% with J. K. Rowling‘s thesis on this, and I think listening to her podcasts is very illuminating. It was disgusting the way a sensible perspective from her led to death threats.
The f*ing irony of all of this? Once again it’s men oppressing women.

@VirginiaCreepers

I've discussed it with friends in real life. The men in women's sport thing does come up if you are in quite sporty circles.

And a couple of colleagues brought it up in a very terfy way at my last place of work (small finance company, very male) as a discussion whilst the Olympics was on and then made a segue to discuss their teenage kids and the ridiculousness of the ideology. I've never had a public sector job though, so I'd maybe expect my circle to look quite different to those in sectors where the vibe is very much more support unequivocally or don't discuss it.

I don't care if that is how a person wants to identify and live their life.

I do care when it affects women and children.

If Labour cared so much about women's rights they would start trans only sports competitions and make trans only public toilets, but they won't because LBGTQ rights trump ours.

Not an issue with trans, but I have a huge issue with people born a male using female toilets.

I expect if money wasn't involved, doctors would be more keen on "watchful waiting" for children and teens struggling with their identities. But money is a powerful incentive, surgeries and hormones generate a lot of cash.

Poll after poll after poll including YouGov show that the vast majority of people believe women should be able to retain single sex spaces and female only safe and fair sport. We are the majority. Even in the American election, in the swing states, by the Democrats own private polling company showed that trans/womens rights was the 3rd top issue. It swung the American election.

But the reason why people are so freaking angry about the whole thing is that for some it is an overnight decision. I’ve literally witnessed this in a girl’s school, with concomitant bullying of others who don’t immediately adopt, often because they don’t know, their new pronouns

TWAM.

The transactivists have caused utter chaos in the world, people have been fired, freedom of speech has been killed, children have had irreversible surgeries that they regret, women's rights have been destroyed. No, I will save my kindness for the detransitioners and the victims of gender ideology not those who push it.

Exactly! If anything I suspect mumsnet has become a forum for women to share views they know they can’t in public because everyone so scared of this 1984 type of atmosphere

Actually, reading the FWR forum on here has made me MORE inclined to be kind, since it's given me some idea of what trans people are up against.

Just call us feminazis like men did in the '70s why don't you? You know you want to. For you, this is about hating women. Nothing else.

I'm 100% pro trans. Everyone should be free to live their lives as they choose regardless of societal gender norms.

Most of MN has been pro trans forever in that case. Abolish gendered toys and clothes, don’t limit kids because of what sex they are, let your son wear the princess dress from the dressing up box and have long curly hair, encourage your daughters to climb trees and take up space etc.

Feminists have been trying to encourage the type of gender-bending behaviour that the trans movement encapsulates forever. Women in trousers anyone!?

Its the gaslighting, language policing, history rewriting, one-sided tolerance, hate speech, womanface cosplaying bullshit that has undermined the foundations of what could have been a credible extension to feminism, supported by and supportive of people of both sexes. But the trans movement became the antithesis when it got overtaken by violent misogynist sexual deviants and those wishing to profit financially from the misery of young people.

I don't care that much. In ten years' time things will have moved on and it'll all look different. The vast majority of trans people are just getting on with their lives.

Agree. I read the entire thread to this comment. Often posters make such claims but don't back up their claims. Where is the hate filled rhetoric posts?

You are not actually reading it then. You are just bridling against women.

PicturePlace
The number of posts on here: "I'm not anti-trans, but..."

I have news for you. You are anti-trans.

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Powerful argument, dude

Also what “sick stuff being pedalled to kids at Pride”? Pride is about acceptance of who you are, and promoting acceptance, as sexuality isn’t a choice. Or at least, it was last time I checked.

This. For sure.

I think most people have always been ok with individuals who identify differently. In my nhs career, I have met a few trans patients a year for decades. We accept their names, pronouns etc. no big deal at all.

The problem now I think is that the trans issue has become ‘bigger’ than it needs to be. Disproportionally so. It’s the usual situation of a few loud and aggressive voices getting the airtime whilst most trans people and those around them I assume just want to get on with their lives.

Awareness and tolerance is great. But let’s not undermine women. Eg Removing the word ‘women’ from medical literature is not ok. I am fine to have the word ‘trans women’ added in. But I am not ok with removal of the word ‘women’.

I think the intense focus on trans people surely makes it harder for most to live their lives and does them no favours. Because they end up being the victims of the angry backlash, which can feel unfair at times.

I reckon a lot of people who are seen as ‘anti trans’ on this thread, just want women to be able to live safely and not lose spaces to men. The rabidly prejudiced people who mock and abhor trans people I see as a separate group entirely.

Anyway, the friends with trans kids I know, seem to be doing fine, thankfully. There is v little drama and everyone is accepted. It would be great if that was the reality for all trans people.

I'm pro women and pro trans women and men.
There's issues with that and concerns of women being held down/back which need to be managed. Without that meaning women have to feel unsafe or lose their identity .
I don't agree with children making medical changers to their gender.

I feel truly sorry for those with genuine gender dysphoria, who just want to live their lives as authentically as possible- to them - without discrimination or malice,
but who know they really aren't the opposite sex (and this has happened for years).

This rabid section of people in recent years who are demanding men are actually women and should be treated exactly the same and if you don't go along with this lie then you'll get cancelled and called a transphobic bigot have completely fucked it for these poor people.

Such a spectacular own goal.

I’m a scientist and only Believe in the two sexes. That is reality/fact. I understand there may be a spectrum of genders if you will.

I believe certain situations should be split by sex. Prisons, sport, refuges etc..

I believe that “women’s officer” posts should be held by women/females/people with XX genes.

I don’t like being told what to say and what to believe.

i don’t like that saying something that is clearly scientific fact, that has been taught for millions of years, could get me fired or worse!

I don’t like putting these ideas on very young children either.

I do agree that we should be kind to all people. But my version of kind does not include me denying reality.

Can somebody who keeps saying there is a lot of anti trans posts please define what anti trans actually is? (In your opinion)

Haven't RTFT. You won't find much trans support on Mumsnet. There's a very vocal gender critical tribe, and most of the rest of the posters will roll their eyes when they see the word 'trans' in a thread title and move on.

For my part, I think I am far more supportive of trans people than most of what I read on MN. I do think that it's important to have safeguards in place for women and children, and that sports etc need to be considered carefully. BUT I also think that trans people (and children) do exist - and I find it frustrating that it's all just dismissed as MH issues/a phase/brain washing/perversion etc. So yes although I would stop short of allowing anyone to just randomly change their official gender (eg on passports) on a whim I also don't think this should NEVER happen.

I have some sympathy with a true 'gender critical' perspective, but in reality I find a lot of the anti-trans posts on Mumsnet disturbing and suspect that many posters would indeed not be happy with, for example, men wearing dresses 'as long as they know they are bio men'. I think that for some people, eradicating 'trans rights' would be the tip of the iceberg and that they are also no fans of gay people etc.