To feel everyone is anti trans?

[Kitjo]

I'm well aware of current US views led by Trump - but are these views generally held/supported in the UK? Of course I understand opinions on NHS gender reassignment funding, as well as controversies over trans women in sport. Needless to say I'm fully aware of concerns over women's safety issues. Are there any sympathisers or supporters out there? What about trans masculine folk who are surely no threat to women's safety or sport? None of these people would choose such a hard life, socially, financially, physically, mentally, emotionally... am I alone in thinking a bit of kindness and compassion towards the trans community might be appreciated for the massive personal struggles they have to face? I am open minded to hearing and understanding your views.

OP trans are the most powerful, most privileged, most protected Sacred Caste and the 'in' thing. Believe me people do choose that life, because it has far more benefits and privileges than actual women have.

And I think there is far, far, far more than enough kindness and compassion for them. They are pandered to more than any other group in history, to the extent that definitions of women have changed and forms have changed to 'birthing person' and 'chest feeder'. NO OTHER GROUP has that enormous POWER.

Where is your kindness and compassion for women and girls, many of us rape survivors and Domestic Violence victims, having to have males in our intimate safe single sex spaces?

Where is your kindness and compassion for women and girls losing their sporting spots, awards, scholarships to men?

Where? Where? Instead of socialising women to 'be kind' to men, where is your kindness and compassion for women and girls?

I don't wish harm on anyone and so am not against trans people, and as long as they aren't encroaching on womens spaces and taking opportunities away from women ie in sports then I'll support them as in respect their pronouns and treat them with the same respect I would anyone else. I don't believe in the ideology though because I don't think gender which is a social construct is a good thing. Rather than uphold these societal stereotypes of what makes a girl and a boy I'd rather people could just wear what they please without judgement. A man who wants to wear a dress and do their make up who cares, but if they then claim it makes them a woman then I don't understand. Also pushing this on to vulnerable children ie you like x you must be born into the wrong body is harmful.

The issue with the 'be kind' message, it's that it's only ever expected one way.

TRA activists sending death threats to the women who are being told they should be more 'kind'. Ffs

Can you give examples of that rhetoric from this thread ? Because for the life of me I can’t see it. What I do see is people exercising their right to free speech.

My DC is Trans,and I wonder how many parents on here with young children would cope if their child felt they needed to be classed as a different sex when they got older,becoming Trans is not an overnight decision, the abuse,the hate,the intolerance in society is astounding, you do not become Trans for the fun of it,it can be heartbreaking for parents and child,and until you can fully comprehend the situation you have absolutely no idea the toll it can have on a person's life.

What is so awful about that phrase is that no one says ‘be kind’ in any other situation.

we don’t say ‘I’m a bit short of money this week so can you be kind and give me half your earnings as you have loads’

or

my car has broken down so be kind and let me use yours.

I'm 100% pro trans. Everyone should be free to live their lives as they choose regardless of societal gender norms.

I'm also 100% aware that it is impossible to change your biological sex. Not sure where that leaves me in this debate.

Can you give some examples of this because I never see any of this, just different people with different opinions who generally state them eloquently and factually.

Women have had to fight hard for our rights. We have been historically marginalised. This is why a site like MN will have fewer posters who have swallowed the BS that is current day trans ideology.

With regard to what you call 'trans masculine folk' I've come across a couple of teens recently who identified as such.

Thing is I don't believe they did have any kind of long term condition. One certainly didn't as she's since desisted. The other doesn't come across masculine in the slightest*, she seems like a socially anxious girl with cool clothes and a buzz cut. Do I think she would be safe in men's spaces? No. That's a concern about her safety, not about the men, though they could reasonably object on their own behalf if they wanted.

*Not that I think being masculine would make her a boy either, but the trans movement apparently does. They will deny it, but what else can feelings of gender be based on? You can't feel physically the way male people feel if you're not male. You can't see the inside of someone else's head to know your head feels the same way. The only thing you could experience would be an affinity for male social stereotypes.

I resent the trans movement for even leading me to thinking about whether some teenager is behaving in a masculine or feminine way - it shouldn't matter in the slightest, in GC language she is a girl because of her biology, and can be as masculine as she likes because stereotypes are just stereotypes.

Do you include children in that?

Most people do not believe a person can change sex. The reason being is that, scientifically its true. Anything after that is nonsense.

I am very pro science.

see, I don't think everyone has the "right to live their life as they choose" if that means a transwoman believes they can use a rape crisis centre for women or compete in female sports. There are sensible limits to living life as we choose!

But trans means exactly living to the "norms"

Agree with this. When a friend suddenly bought this topic up, I asked her if she'd been spending a lot of time recently Mumsnet (yep). Other than that instance, I've very rarely discussed the topic in RL - maybe just at work DE&I related events (and folks attending would generally classify themselves as trans allies).

I often discuss feminist related topics with friends and colleages- and it still it doesn't come up. Topics we discuss include: career challenges for women, unequal domestic contributions, domestic abuse, Roe vs Wade (how grateful we are re UK rights), expectations of girls/boys (should I buy princess outfits for my nephew?), male entitlement, the gender health gap and gender finance gaps (pensions, earnings). All things that are far more likely to impact the day to day lives of each other or our friends & family.

@PicturePlace Thinking rape survivors like me and other women and girls deserve our hard won safe single sex spaces, and fair sport is NOT 'anti-trans', unless of course, you are admitting that to be pro-trans is anti-women.

I am definitely not anti trans.

Exactly. Individual's rights must always be considered in the light of what's optimal for society as a whole. This seems to have been totally missing from the trans debates (until recently).

So you admit you're anti-women.

I’d be saying, wear what you want but you can’t change sex. Stay out of women’s spaces.

If not wanting biological men who cosplay at being 'women' (whatever that means as those who shout TWAW can never define this) in women's spaces and sports makes me 'anti trans' then I'm anti-trans to the hard of thinking. The problem isn't trans people, it's men. In any disguise.

Trans women currently hold the same rights as everyone else. They don't and shouldn't have the additional rights to use those spaces that's not for them. Wear what you want, call yourself whatever you want free of discrimination, but you can't change sex, and you can't compel me to believe something that isn't true. Saying TWAW is akin to the Emperor's New Clothes. You look daft.

The posters who dump 'Mumsnet are so anti-trans' can never really expand or articulate past this statement so I don't take them seriously.

Women don't care where trans men (females) go. Biological females aren't statistically as much of a threat to women than men are, regardless of how one identifies. Trans men wouldn't go into women's spaces if they really adhered to trans ideology so the argument posed by a PP about biology falling down doesn't hold.

Depends on how that choice impacts others doesn’t it ?

So you admit you are pro biological men in female spaces? You admit you are anti-women?

Try having kids in secondary school and college, it seems impossible to avoid. Between my 3 children, I know so many children identifying as trans. Then try having an autistic child and seeing how easy it is to not talk about the topic.