The brainlessness of an English Tutor. Fuming

[crazymomma93]

Long time lurker, please bear with me.
My DD12 has been having some issues with her reading book. It has been making her feel uncomfortable, from the Genre and style of writing. So I have looked into it, got a jist of the book, she has pointed out some bits that made her uneasy and I looked up the age rating which was 14+. Now typically if you knew me, you would know I am not "that Mom" but I emailed her Form Tutor to ask if there was an alternative. Tutor emailed back after talking to English dept and DD dosn't need to read the book any longer, she can bring in her own. No problem. My DD has just told me she spoke with her own English Tutor, the day before I sent the email to tell her Form Tutor. After listening to DD, English Tutor responds "it's just words"
ITS JUST WORDS? Sorry is that not pretty much the Tutors whole career, teaching English?
I need calming because I am close to emailing said teacher calling her a c**t, because, you know "it's just words". See how her feelings are when she reads something that makes her uncomfortable.
My DD turned to her to ask because the book was making her uneasy and that is the response. What about children who get verbally bullied? Where is this Womans morals. AIBU?

So you've not read the book, and your daughter twisted/exaggerated the truth, and you've still got your knickers in a twist?!

So I start off thinking, is this something like Schindler's List or something. And then I realise this is mumsnet 2025 so it's going to be a 'gay panic' scenario.

"I don't think YA should be aimed at 12 year olds. A 12 year old is not a young adult, far from it. An 18 year old is a young adult. 12 - 18 is older child. I wish the government would get input from professionals with expertise around child development to decide on age ratings."

That's not what young adult means in the book world. For some reason, they use the expression differently (incorrectly) to mean teenagers. A 12 year old is at secondary school and the school library will have adult books, books for actual adults not just teen books.
Most school set books are adult books (in the sense of books for adults and not the other meaning of course).

"When were you born? Between 12 - 18 we read either classics like Austen, Dickens, Zola, etc etc, or books aimed at... OC - older children - 12 - 18 year olds. You can still even buy them now. In my day, whole book stores had shelves cram packed with them.
We didn't read scary books or upsetting books. "

Can't Dickens be upsetting? And Zola's work can be very violent, can't it? I haven't read it, but I remember a man's member being cut off in the film Germinal.

Some of the people on this group are very judgemental and have a tactless, mean way of saying things. I agree that the comment was probably taken out of context and you’re best not to judge the teacher on this alone. However…… I am also a mum and if I saw my child upset, especially over something ruining their confidence, I would be angry too.

Crikey!!!!!

If the school is teaching and encouraging children to read this book it will be part of the National Curriculum or from an approved reading list!

Books like this described a dystopian literature are useful tools to explore themes and issues that are fundamentally about feminism and coming of age.

The way you describe it you would think that your daughter was reading erotic literature, which this book absolutely is not, and it’s much tamer than the Haindmaids tale (based on the Ceaușescu regime and the beliefs of fundamentalist evangelical Christian’s) or even Romeo and Juliet which involves 14 year olds having a secret relationship, marriage, murders and suicides.

Perhaps because it’s set in the future you are making this into something it isn’t, it’s about feminism, self determination and smashing the patriarchy’s control.

Regardless the content of this book is considerably less disturbing to a child than most soap storylines, and the evening news.

You seem like a complete nightmare as a parent, flying off into a Mumsnet rage with half baked facts threatening to say the most offensive word to a teacher!

Finally my Daughter read Noughts and Crosses in year 7 alongside Romeo & Juliet. She enjoyed it so much that we bought her the rest of the books in the anthology. Not quite sure what the concern is about reading books that gently explore more adult themes.

Parenting is not about preventing your child from learning and forming their own opinions and looking at different perspectives through the use of literature, it’s about ensuring that they can approach you with any questions about what they have read!

Children of 12 vary enormously in their development so you just have to play it by ear. I've taught 12-year-olds who are still reading the equivalent of Peter Rabbit, and others who have hoovered up Lord of the Rings and are now looking for something more challenging.

Jesus. You need to get over it OP

My English tutor recommended I read the handmades tale when I was in year seven. I did. It didn’t make me uneasy but I think in retrospect I was probably too young to fully understand everything that happened in the book.

Im sorry your daughter felt uncomfortable. Hopefully a solution can be found and the school can take lessons for future years and reading tasks.

Have you been drinking?? Your writing style and logic reminds me of my alcoholic ex.

Side note: this is why the country is haemorrhaging teachers.

Based on OP’s updates I don’t think it was a total fabrication. It sounds like she was economical with the truth and left out some key details.

Teens don't just lie to stay out of trouble. Mostly they do it in the hope of a quiet life. Sometimes they do it because they are feeling bruised or embarrassed after an encounter with an authority figure, and they tell a version of the story which will guarantee that the most important adults in their life take their side 🤷‍♀️.

So this is another case when MN helped - fuming OP was able to fume anonymously here instead of at school and re-check with DD before taking further action. Good :)

In the same time, the book really seems focused on a bit older audience, and while I agree that books are the safest introduction to disturbing ideas for many, there is no real value in forcing this kind of unsettling staff on girls this early. The more disturbing stuff works better when it is self-inflicted (by choosing the book for myself from some selection, ideally slightly pre-warned)

There are many great books focused on pre-teens, or generally good books which work in any age, no reason to force YA which does have a specific age in mind.

While I totally agree with you, Lord of the Rings (or Harry Potter as a previous poster used as the 'difficult' end of things) isn't the type of challenging stuff anyone has a problem with I don't think, it's more a long read. It's the sudden 'open doors' into quite adult content immediately after primary school. It's usually the keen readers we are talking about here, but my keen reader was put off for a long time by the sudden full on assault. Chooses some wonderful books now, and poetry, but I wish there was more of a gradient, it's quite brutal.

Wow. Teachers are real people and you need to calm down.

Sorry just to say, it's not just schools, I asked for recommendations in Waterstones as my then 12 year old was galloping along, and having read many many of the suggestions he suggested A Clockwork Orange 😲

Unles it is 120 Days of Sodom... you are that mum.

if I saw my child upset, especially over something ruining their confidence, I would be angry too.

That is a pretty natural reaction. But since children dont have their full capacities yet, as adults we need to apply some critical thinking, assess what is going on, and possibly support or redirect them if appropriate. Not just take it and run with it, especially since as we have seen with this thread, children can misunderstand or misreport what is going on, or even twist things completely. Its also really concerning that being offended is considered such a deal breaker - no one has the right to expect this will never happen, and sometimes it is about dealing with it, or discussing and exploring this. I did English Lit A level - war poetry, Shakespeare, Jane Austen, so in contact with some really offensive ideas. Contextualized and used as the basis for a considered discussion, not just slapped with the label offensive and removed from view.

I can’t remember whether it was year 7 or year 8 that a very enthusiastic trainee history (I think) teacher recommended Perfume to the entire class.

Probably not entirely appropriate, in hindsight.

You know what ?. This is beyond belief. When I was 12 , you read what you were given for the subject . Tough sh*t if you found it uncomfortable…..you dealt with it, you learned from it…..has the world become this untenable that now children finding books “uncomfortable” is a thing ?. Is it not better to discuss the reasons why the book is causing discomfort, surely it’s better to deal with something face on than hide from it ? . At 12, I’d read No orchids for Miss Blandish, Lolita, Kill a mockingbird, Pin to see The peep show, The Well of loneliness, ….disconcerting, thought provoking….and I kept reading thought provoking, disconcerting, challenging novels….and went on to study English at Uni…..because you can’t learn by hiding from that which you find challenging. My Mum was a teacher- she didn’t discuss anything with me, I had to sort it in my own head, and so I did……Sorry, but teacher was right…”it is only words”…..get a grip OP.

In the vast majority of cases, a book making you uncomfortable means you should explore why through discussion, challenge and critical thinking. In almost all cases, the correct response is never to remove yourself from exposure to the book. As this book has been chosen by the English department of a school I think it’s incredibly unlikely that this would be one of the few cases where the book shouldn’t be read.

I think I must have grown into emotions, because I don't think I was upset enough at a book to cry until my later teens. 1984 and For Whom the Bell Tolls stand out as the biggies.

Black Beauty stays with 8 yr old me for its depiction of cruelty to animals, and probably triggered my animal rights teen years.

Watership down, bought with birthday money around the same age, remained a firm favourite for, well, pushing 40 years. And that image of the poor shredded ears never really fades, in spite of all the other stuff I've read since. The most unsettling bits for me at that age were all the weird black rabbit dreams and the religious elements. But that's because I wanted more plot, nor esoteric weirdy shit.

Steady on. After twenty years of teaching I can tell you that pretty much every child takes home ‘alternative facts’ from time to time, whether through outright fibs or by leaving out the crucial details which don’t happen to paint them in the best light.

Zero possibility that "pretty much every child takes home "alternative facts"". Taking home alternative facts would be an indication of a breach in relationship between parent and child, it is not "normal" for this to happen and I am not sure about the statistics about how many children do it, it most definitely should not be the assumption that all tweens and teens take home "alternative facts".

I can't tell you how dangerous it is to assume a child is lying. It is the sort of thing that can lead to suicide. A child lying to their parent about problems in school should not ever be the assumption. Question and verify facts by all means and be aware that children give their perception (which is going to be the perception of a tween/teen). But be very wary of accusing children of lying simply because of their age. It would be mind bogglingly incompetent to do that.

OP @crazymomma93 exactly what do you mean your daughter "changed the narrative of what the teacher had said to fit her own version"? What is her own version, and why did she feel she had to twist things when she talked to you about a book, and a teacher? What was the "real" version and what was her reason for changing it? I am going to hazard a guess that you will not be able to answer any of these questions, right?

@ThanksItHasPockets "pretty much all" children presenting "alternative facts" is about as likely as "pretty much all" teachers presenting "alternative facts".

I also wonder whether 'it's only words ' was said in frustration. Kids often hate reading and will pick up on all kinds of things to distract/ get out of it. Not saying your dd was doing this, but it's wearyingly common.

E.g. the words 'gay' or 'queer' appearing in any text, ever, even though you explain the usage over time. We'll forgive Conan Dolye his ejaculations, because I do think he's trolling us all. Watson ejaculates constantly.

Or when reading a book with the odd swear word in it. It's always the most foul mouthed kids who suddenly take offence with seeing the word in print and have to exclaim loudly if anyone reads it out loud.

Oh come off it. My son has suffered the most egregious miscarriages of justice in school this year.

According to him.

Except he forgets that a. I've been a teacher almost twice his lifespan and he's basically spouting the 'not me 'guv spiel word for word and b. I know him.

He's not often poorly behaved in school, because it's really not worth it at home, but sometimes he behaves like the teenage dick he is. And gets caught doing so.

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