That picture of the Southport killer

[User09678]

That has been circulating today.

Remember that sweet boy that was in all the reports at the time? The one who looked about nine?

Can anyone think of any other serious criminal who has pictures of them as a child out in the press?

It’s not odd at all @Trikey It’s completely normal. Given you know nothing about how these things work maybe keep your ridiculous conspiracy theories to yourself.

Looks like a picture taken in custody!

It was expected to last 4 weeks, today was only a preliminary process, confirming name, address, plea which was expected to be not guilty with the actual trial, evidence and defence etc starting tomorrow. It was never going to be hidden behind the inauguration. It's only because he's changed his plea that it's come to our attention today. Tomorrow the news would have been full of it.

But what should have been done in your view?

No former crimes. Nothing suggesting terrorism. He needed to be referred to social and mental health services I agree but people seem to think he could have been charged and held with something and it is not clear what.

I think the reason court drawings weren't used more is that he bowed his head or covered his face with a jumper. The court artist wasn't able to see his face so wasn't able to create a proper drawing. Until he pled guilty and this police mugshot was realised, the only options were no image, an image that was from when he was much younger, or the court drawing with the jumper covering most of his face.

There were several incidents at his former school which were criminal offences.

If he hadn't pleaded guilty unexpectedly, the trial would have lasted for weeks. The inauguration is one day.

People really are thick, aren't they?

@oakleaffy facially he looks exactly like a young adult version of the child. Of course he's going to look odd in the picture of him when he was under arrest, he's clearly got many different issues and wasn't being particularly cooperative. He wasn't posing for a modelling head shot.

When you consider that we knew from the reporting that in the years since the school boy photos, he had been severely mentally unwell and isolated, well, the image from the police is entirely consistent with that.

It's super bizarre that these images are something people think is worth discussing.

If someone had been arrested for the brutal murder of three little girl and the attempted murder of more, yes.

I suppose it depends on whether you think an al Qaeda manual is Islamic extremist material.

https://news.sky.com/story/southport-stabbings-suspect-faces-separate-terror-charge-after-ricin-and-al-qaeda-manual-found-at-home-13243980

he committed several criminal offences at his former school. He also booked a taxi armed with a knife intending to travel to his former school and commit a mass killing. His dad talked him out of it. Not clear whether his dad reported this to the authorities.

Can you share the source of this, please? Thanks.

He was also apparently obsessed with Hitler, Genghis Khan and reading up on the IRA.

You keep talking about his referral to Prevent seemingly frustrated they did not do something. But what could they do with no evidence that he was anyway involved or at risk of being involved in terror related activities?
I am sure they did think his fascination with death and violence was a threat but I don’t think they lock people up for macabre fascinations. All of this is looking back with the benefit of hindsight. I don’t even know if they could place a mental health hold on him which was probably the best bet. (I tried to have somebody picked up on mental health concerns once and was told nothing could be done - but that was an adult. His parents surely could have requested that with a minor.)

Because the trial was starting tomorrow. Today's session was supposed to be brief pre-trial work but the killer changed his plea to guilty. No one was trying to hide this on the day of the inauguration.

People are just desperate to blame this on the Muslim community, aren't they?

Yes he had a fascinstion with death and violence. He also had materials relating to the IRA and Adolf Hitler but to our knowledge he is neither a Nazi nor a member of the IRA.

Horrible to think of. The poor little girls and their families

None of his charges relate to those things.

And? You think carrying a knife and attempting to go to school with a baseball bat to attack teachers and classmates is unremarkable?
And if someone was arrested for the brutal murder of three little girls and the attempted murder of more, yes, I do think that that was information that should be shared with those in authority.
There's the small matter of the ricin too.
Perhaps you also think that is unremarkable.

Yep. Black Christian commits a murder and still somehow the muslims are to blame.

yes, it is and it is a criminal offence to have it. But having it is not the same as evidence of motivation. With terrorism, motivation is key - it is about advancing a cause. The motivation here is unclear but it does not appear that he carried out the murders for ideologistic reasons. It does appear that he was fixated on violence but that is not the same as having a motive for terrorism.

No.

Read what I wrote again.

Unremarkable in and of itself? No.

To be on the radar of the PM and the Home Secretary? Again, no.

You keep talking about his referral to Prevent seemingly frustrated they did not do something.

You are misunderstanding me. I think it's wrong that if his motive for mass murder, schools massacre etc was terror related then Prevent would have escalated the referral. But because it wasn't terror motivated it was all fine, no risk here. It's not right that someone who was clearly a threat fell through the net because his motivations didn't tick the check box. You don't have to agree though.