That picture of the Southport killer

[User09678]

That has been circulating today.

Remember that sweet boy that was in all the reports at the time? The one who looked about nine?

Can anyone think of any other serious criminal who has pictures of them as a child out in the press?

Largely identification and rehabilitation of kids that are being radicalised. I can see why he would get referred to Prevent because there doesn’t seem to be anywhere else to refer to and it seems like an obvious choice. I can also see why if they’ve assessed him and there is no ideology just an obsession with extreme violence that Prevent isn’t the right service.

@RafaistheKingofClay I agree. If they assessed him they'd potentially be saying oh shit, this guy's well beyond being slightly misinformed. That's my point. I don't think he was a typical young guy who just got in with a few baddies who tried to sell him an idea.

Is the dictionary not clear enough for you? Interpretation is not a definition. Islamophobia has a clear definition in the English language. If you think it is applied incorrectly then make you objections on its actual definition, not your or anyone else's interpretation.

I would consider the attribution of a horrific, violent attack by a non Muslim to Muslims constitutes unreasonable dislike.

If an individual faces repercussions for being called Islamophobic then it's definitely important to define ones interpretation of that, whatever the dictionary definition.

I am not sure why you're getting so annoyed about this. Just explain your point and I will listen and check where necessary. No need for the added digs.

Could you not equally say misinformed? Lacking facts? That's reasonable here surely.

I've made my point. You and others asked for the definition of Islamophobia. I provided it.

Yes it is in law.

Your point wasn't good enough. Other posters have provided excellent counter points to misinformation. You have not.

There is no shame in lacking facts or being misinformed. The reasonable solution is to check the facts. Blaming Muslims without evidence is unreasonable.

Mary Bell

that he was excluded from The Range School in Formby for carrying a knife, broke a boys wrist with a bat, terrorised classmates, so much…

I’m not sure it’s about being misinformed. It goes back to the definition of terrorism needing an ideology behind it. Prevent can deradicalise thise kids who’ve been radicalised. If like here, there isn’t an underlying ideology then whatever they do isn’t going to be useful.

The question then becomes which service should he have been referred on to. My guess is it probably would have fallen under CAMHs.

@Trikey well said, a vacuum indeed

Yes very true. Misinformed is not the appropriate word there you're right. I worked in a Local Authority who were partners in the implementation of the PREVENT strategy over 15 years ago. I remember back then thinking even as a very young inexperienced woman it felt alot like a knee jerk reaction and so much of it did not sit right with me.

I doubt CAMHS would have done much here. Other posters have highlighted the reality that is parents on their knees saying help us, with little help coming. This I know to be true. CAHMS might be unable to even do anything even if they had the will and resource based on the information they were given.

I'd say a fair number of young boys might have incidents like this logged against them. It doesn't tell you the full story. PREVENT for example might have no place to do anything about someone with these flags against them.

I'm watching a news channel atm and all they are flagging is the Al Quada fascination. They're linking it to a shutting down of information provided by news / Starmer at the time. I can understand why further details only come out down the line.

This is really misinforming people and that's really annoying. All the above can be true but the omission of additional important information is a problem here.

This is an extract from a Government report on data on Prevent referrals:

• for the fourth year running, the number of referrals for ‘Extreme right-wing concerns’ (1,314; 19%) is greater than referrals for ‘Islamist concerns’ (913; 13%);

IDK but it seems like there isn't much in the way of CAMHS in the area

However a well functioning Tier 3 CAMHS would be seriously alarmed by this young man's presentation and whilst not neccessarily able to provide specific therapeutic interventions should be able to access specialist forensic Tier 4 CAMHS provision eg risk assessments, tailored CBT, trial of medication, in-patient etc

But if there's not even normal CAMHS??

That's so depressing. When you talk about Tier 3 provision, can you imagine the difference that could make to lives, even possibly in this case. I know things aren't so simplistic.

It's frustrating that the focus is upon one aspect of this whilst other elements feel like they're being ignored, not interesting enough.

@Tittat50 not in Formby they won’t

incidentally, has anyone yet asked why and how this boy was even a pupil at Range, a 20 minute walk from the railway station, trains to Southport then a other 5/6 miles to Banks which is an isolated village - when there are two mixed schools and a boys school in Southport and one 2 miles from Banks

Banks to Formby, even using the coast road so avoiding early morning traffic would take half an hour and bus to Southport then train to Formby then 20 min walk. This youth was used to taxis which Sefton use to ferry schoolchildren to and from school.

SEN? Undiagnosed/diagnosed.

( I'm not saying all SEN kids are killers)

@Tittat50 yes - we had the frustration when we lived in Birkdale of our lad leaving the house early for a journey by train to school down the track but a boy who we never saw, 3 doors down, away by taxi morning and afternoon, SEN at an Independent School though, Common Entrance, School entrance exam & interview? Life is a mystery. This boy will have stood out like a sore thumb wherever he was. Banks is an isolated place in the middle of nowhere. I would feel sorry for him in different circumstances. Very different.

@DoloresODonovan I understand what you're saying and in a different circumstance I could feel the same also. This is why I am saying that other issues and factors are probably more relevant here than say extremism. Something had gone awry before that and I believe he was going to grab hold of anything violent and concerning by the time he got to where he was.

Why are people referring to that photo of him as a younger kid as a "sweet little boy"? He was expelled after he beat another child so badly with a hockey stick that he broke the kid's wrist.