Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Grooming gangs being labelled as "Muslim grooming gangs"

1000 replies

Olga009933 · 19/01/2025 17:48

Why is religious heritage of child sex offenders only mentioned in headlines when the offenders are of south Asian and predominantly Muslim heritage.
Why not just label them as "grooming gangs" or "Asian grooming gangs" (if wanting to be be specific).
Just thinking and wondering about the thousands of white British and presumably non-Muslim sex offenders who make the news. How many of them are labelled "Christian sex attacker" or "Jewish pervert" etc? Why is the religious heritage of a sex offender only mentioned why the offenders are of Muslim background?
If mentioning religion for one particular demographic then surely its only fair to mention the religious heritage of them all?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
24
Hoppinggreen · 20/01/2025 21:40

TENSsion · 20/01/2025 21:37

It was caused by white people not wanting to be seen as racist and Pakistani Muslim men in positions of power being involved in it.

Look at how people are STILL being accused of racism for talking about. Now imagine you’re an MP relying on the votes of your Pakistani Muslim constituents and your liberal white constituents. How well would it go to be considered racist?

Consider you’re a police officer or a teacher or a social worker and your boss has a cousin who has been accused of it and a huge proportion of the people you deal with on a day to day basis support the men who do this. Consider your boss says the family are dealing with it and you’re better off staying out of it. How do you think your career in Rotherham will go once you’ve been accused of being racist?

We can see the accusation of being called racist shuts down discourse. It’s evidence on this thread alone. Now consider your job depends on your relationship with the Pakistani Muslim community. People kept their mouths shut.

There was a HUGE mysoginistic aspect to it.
The girls were a certain "type" and The Police judged them.
I know from experience (family member) that when the girls involved were from nice MC families The Police were straight on it and WERE happy to prosecute

Jumpingthruhoops · 20/01/2025 21:41

Olga009933 · 19/01/2025 17:48

Why is religious heritage of child sex offenders only mentioned in headlines when the offenders are of south Asian and predominantly Muslim heritage.
Why not just label them as "grooming gangs" or "Asian grooming gangs" (if wanting to be be specific).
Just thinking and wondering about the thousands of white British and presumably non-Muslim sex offenders who make the news. How many of them are labelled "Christian sex attacker" or "Jewish pervert" etc? Why is the religious heritage of a sex offender only mentioned why the offenders are of Muslim background?
If mentioning religion for one particular demographic then surely its only fair to mention the religious heritage of them all?

In relation to the Rochdale, Rotherham scandals, the heritage is relevant; white working class young girls systematically abused/groomed/gang r*ped by men allegedly of Pakistani origin.
Greater Manchester Police were forced to apologise for not investigating these crimes properly at the time; which was apparently in large part DUE to the fact they didn't want to be accused of racism.

Twiney2 · 20/01/2025 21:44

TheGander · 20/01/2025 17:13

From an Islamic website: The reason why this is permitted is that this slave woman belongs to him, either because he has paid money to buy her or he has fought for the sake of Allaah (and acquired her among the war booty).
Shaykh al-Shanqeeti (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: The reason for which people may be taken as slaves is if they are kaafirs who are waging war against Allaah and His Messenger. If Allaah grants victory to the mujaahid Muslims, who are offering their souls, their wealth and all their resources and everything that Allaah has given them so that the word of Allaah might prevail over the kuffaar, then these kuffaar may become slaves, unless the imam chooses to let them go or to ransom them if that serves the interests of the Muslims.
Adwa’ al-Bayaan, 3/387
The practice of taking slaves from defeated non Muslim tribes and incorporating the females into the household as concubines has historical roots. The passages above sound like something from the ISIS playbook. Think of the Yazidi women taken as sex slaves in Syria ( Yazidi are not Muslim). Now I don’t think any of these slave women would have offered anything resembling the modern definition of consent. There are just reams and reams of texts in the Coran and the hadiths that justify coercion and rape of women under various circumstances ( they are your legitimate Islamic wife but they disobey you. They are not Muslim).

That is not the Quran. @roxyro said it was in the Quran.

A random Islamic website does not prove anything.

Wibblywobblyses · 20/01/2025 21:49

I think when Muslim Pakistani men target under age vulnerable girls, ply them with alcohol, drugs and then traffic them for money it is wicked behaviour. They should be held accountable, they should be in jail. What happened in Rotherham was shocking. So many young girls targeted - these girls should have been protected. I disagree with your stance. These gangs treated kafirs (non muslims) in a dishonourable way and IMO it was reverse discrimination.

Feelingathomenow · 20/01/2025 21:57

Twiney2 · 20/01/2025 21:44

That is not the Quran. @roxyro said it was in the Quran.

A random Islamic website does not prove anything.

Quran 23:6 “except with their wives or those ˹bondwomen˺ in their possession,1 for then they are free from blame,” basically men can shag their slaves, no discussion about consent.

Islamic practice at that time would include any prisoners of war being distributed amongst Islamic households to be held as prisoners of war but effectively slaves.

SomethingSScintillating · 20/01/2025 21:57

@TENSsion there is also a biriadi system, sp, a sort of brotherhood in play

ERthree · 20/01/2025 22:07

Yet again Rotherham council putting the victims last. Lessons have obviously not been learned.

Twiney2 · 20/01/2025 22:13

Feelingathomenow · 20/01/2025 21:57

Quran 23:6 “except with their wives or those ˹bondwomen˺ in their possession,1 for then they are free from blame,” basically men can shag their slaves, no discussion about consent.

Islamic practice at that time would include any prisoners of war being distributed amongst Islamic households to be held as prisoners of war but effectively slaves.

How does this prove the point @roxyro made?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 20/01/2025 22:14

It was caused by white people not wanting to be seen as racist and Pakistani Muslim men in positions of power being involved in it.

Look at how people are STILL being accused of racism for talking about. Now imagine you’re an MP relying on the votes of your Pakistani Muslim constituents and your liberal white constituents. How well would it go to be considered racist?

Consider you’re a police officer or a teacher or a social worker and your boss has a cousin who has been accused of it and a huge proportion of the people you deal with on a day to day basis support the men who do this. Consider your boss says the family are dealing with it and you’re better off staying out of it. How do you think your career in Rotherham will go once you’ve been accused of being racist?

We can see the accusation of being called racist shuts down discourse. It’s evidence on this thread alone. Now consider your job depends on your relationship with the Pakistani Muslim community. People kept their mouths shut.

This. And yes, I agree some people simply used it as a convenient excuse to get away with doing nothing.

It's immaterial. The effect is the same.

YesYesKitten · 20/01/2025 22:47

So, OP, you're happy for an entire nationality (Pakistani) to be tarred as paedophiles instead of an entire religion.

There are probably more Pakistani doctors in the UK but that doesn't make headlines.

And the men weren't all Pakistani. The only description is paedophile. They are wholly to blame, but it's interesting how professionals involved didn't value the lives of troubled girls either.

There's a huge rise in racism in the UK, people aren't afraid to be racist anymore, so I don't buy that people were scared of being accused of racism. They just didn't do their jobs, as investigations find is so often the case, because they didn't value the girls either.

Police aren't scared to disproportionately stop and search black males so I can't see why they wouldn't investigate a paedophile brown face.

And I don't recall the headlines attributing Huw Edwards' behaviour to his Welshness.

There are a lot of threads popping up on MN, where people comment with anti-migrant views. I do wonder if that is the intention of these OPs, to stir up division.

justasking111 · 20/01/2025 22:55

Hoppinggreen · 20/01/2025 21:40

There was a HUGE mysoginistic aspect to it.
The girls were a certain "type" and The Police judged them.
I know from experience (family member) that when the girls involved were from nice MC families The Police were straight on it and WERE happy to prosecute

I watched the Yorkshire ripper documentary last year. It transpired that while he was killing prostitutes the investigation was low key. When he murdered a nice girl they all woke up. I was shocked at this.

PBJsandwich123 · 20/01/2025 23:12

It's not Asian grooming gangs. It's Pakistani grooming gangs. No Thai, Bangladeshi or Chinese grooming gangs on the loose as far as I know

PBJsandwich123 · 20/01/2025 23:19

YesYesKitten · 20/01/2025 22:47

So, OP, you're happy for an entire nationality (Pakistani) to be tarred as paedophiles instead of an entire religion.

There are probably more Pakistani doctors in the UK but that doesn't make headlines.

And the men weren't all Pakistani. The only description is paedophile. They are wholly to blame, but it's interesting how professionals involved didn't value the lives of troubled girls either.

There's a huge rise in racism in the UK, people aren't afraid to be racist anymore, so I don't buy that people were scared of being accused of racism. They just didn't do their jobs, as investigations find is so often the case, because they didn't value the girls either.

Police aren't scared to disproportionately stop and search black males so I can't see why they wouldn't investigate a paedophile brown face.

And I don't recall the headlines attributing Huw Edwards' behaviour to his Welshness.

There are a lot of threads popping up on MN, where people comment with anti-migrant views. I do wonder if that is the intention of these OPs, to stir up division.

In fairness it does work to gender/race/age profiling. Significantly less women are criminals so it would be a waste of police time to be stopping and searching 90 year old women (of any race). The police do need to operate in a data driven way for reasons of efficiency - of course this means there are a lot of young men flagged down for searches who aren't criminals (but if it catches the ones that are, isn't that better for everyone?). Of course there are outliers as with all data.

justasking111 · 20/01/2025 23:37

PBJsandwich123 · 20/01/2025 23:12

It's not Asian grooming gangs. It's Pakistani grooming gangs. No Thai, Bangladeshi or Chinese grooming gangs on the loose as far as I know

We had a house raided in a small Welsh village five miles up the road. They discovered Chinese slave girls being used as prostitutes. No-one had a clue in the village.

mommatoone · 20/01/2025 23:49

Evan456 · 20/01/2025 18:39

But that’s not a gang

Exactly - when these monsters are referred to as 'gangs', we are talking about a group of men picking up young girls for the purpose of exploitation. There may just be one person initially gaining the trust of these girls (grooming), but there are scores of them (gang) waiting in the wings to fulfil their needs over and over. These people don't just act on impulse. It's like an organised crime group, they have runners, premises ,alibis, supporters in the community. They are untouchable.

Hoppingabout · 21/01/2025 00:06

justasking111 · 20/01/2025 23:37

We had a house raided in a small Welsh village five miles up the road. They discovered Chinese slave girls being used as prostitutes. No-one had a clue in the village.

That's awful. Who were the gang leaders?

LazyArsedMagician · 21/01/2025 01:25

Olga009933 · 19/01/2025 17:57

And just to add ethnic identity is completely different to religious background or identity. Not even all Pakistanis are Muslim tbf.

Then why would you use Asian like you suggested in your OP? Asia spans China and parts of Russia.

LazyArsedMagician · 21/01/2025 01:27

Whoops sorry didn't see how many pages there were and that comment was on the 1st!

askmenow · 21/01/2025 03:17

BetjemanFan · 19/01/2025 17:53

This should help you to educate yourself on this topic, OP:

https://thecritic.co.uk/ignore-the-grooming-gangs-deniers/

Calling them Muslim rape gangs is slightly more accurate than Pakistani rape gangs, because some offenders were Muslim but not Pakistani.

Our Government and Institutions have sacrificed our white girls on the alter of "Diversity" by their systemic cowardice and corruption. NO MORE AND NO LESS!
And they are afraid of calling for a National Inquiry that will force the people in power to divulge their inadequacies under oath.
Our institutions are complicit in paedophilia. 12 year old girls in a house with several adult Muslim men and the girls are deemed to be consenting????
WT actual F!

This British scandal shames us in the eyes of the world.

We women must not let this lie until it stops and we've had full disclosure.
Pakistani Rape Gangs in circa 50 towns for Gods sake when only 6 were mentioned fleetingly in the Jay Report.

We demand a National Inquiry.

askmenow · 21/01/2025 03:21

The men involved put schedules on the back of doors in these houses.

When these vile paedophiles called in and used/abused the girls they would sign to say they'd been and later be billed.... Read the transcripts!

MsBxy · 21/01/2025 04:25

StopStartStop · 19/01/2025 18:46

It is characteristic of this crime that the perpetrators come from Pakistani Muslim backgrounds. The prevalence of 'rape genocide' as a strategy in the war between Pakistan and Bangladesh meant the behaviour was absorbed into the culture (if it wasn't there before), and was brought to the UK when people immigrated. Islamic teachings (perhaps Qur'an, Hadith or tradition) allow a deep disrespect of white women ('the daughters of the unbelievers are permitted to you') and the social behaviour of western women is so different from what their culture tells them to expect of women that they believe - and teach each other- that white women and girls 'are brought up to it by their parents' (ie having sex with randoms) and 'want it' because 'all white girls are players'. White women are thought to be only worthy to be abused and to be urinated on. Their country is the 'pure land', the UK is 'stupid country'. Within their communities there is a teaching that you should cover up your neighbours sin, in the same way you would hope he would cover your failings. See the work of Raja Miah (Recusant Nine) on YouTube.

The mistake we made (and continue to make) was thinking that people from other parts of the world would share our (Western, European, UK) worldview. They don't.

There are men in rape gangs who are not Pakistani Muslim, but they take advantage of the structure of abuse that the Pakistani Muslims establish. They're just as guilty, but not as organised.

I taught for years. I have known British Pakistani Muslim boys who would never be involved in anything like this - and others. The only time I heard of a girl being rescued (having been captured by a man and held prisoner) was when girls from her school contacted the man and said they'd have the police round there if he didn't release her. I asked if they weren't afraid - no, neither the girls nor the boys in their class were afraid, they were going to do the right thing. Remembering these people gives me hope.

I started teaching in 1993 and heard of this behaviour shortly afterwards. Police and Social Services knew but would not intervene. We have recently heard that government gave instructions they were not to do so.

Thousands of our children have been sacrificed to keep... what? Politicians in their jobs? Peace on the streets? Is it real peace if your twelve year olds are being raped by four or more men at a time? Or even by one man. It should never happen. We let the abusers think we didn't care, or that we were too weak to put a stop to it.

Thousands of families have been damaged - victims families, perpetrators families, the youth who have been conditioned to think this is acceptable behaviour and the victims who have been conditioned to accept that this is all they are worth.

Pitifully, there are still white British, often middle-class people, who don't believe this has happened and is happening still, who think it is all exaggerated, who can't imagine it, who think one girl 'making it up' means they all were.

This is, cumulatively, the biggest crime the UK has ever known. It is an ongoing act of terror. Politicians, police, local councils and social services are all potentially complicit, and perhaps should be subject to legal action.

Stop focusing on language to try to distract from the truth of the situation.

Which part of the Muslim holy books says “the daughters of the unbelievers are permitted to you”. Please share the numbers, I would like to look it up. My gut feeling is that it doesn’t exist, but please do share and I’ll google search it and paste the verse on here.

MsBxy · 21/01/2025 04:33

Feelingathomenow · 20/01/2025 13:39

You do realise apostasy in Islam is punishable by death don’t you? Although not part of UK law some Muslims do uphold sharia law over UK law.

you do realise that women are subject to very different rules that cover all aspects of their lives - none of which are beneficial to women. You do realise women are often left isolated? It’s not a case of “oh they sit separately in a mosque”.

Your views are very poorly informed and I guess come from a place of not having much contact with Muslims.

Edited

You do realize that Muslim women are SICK of being spoken of in this way. Being seen as this helpless group of people who could not possibly choose a lifestyle of modesty because they choose to? You do realize that daily thousands of women from all corners of the globe including women of your ethnicity freely choose to become Muslim, even though they have grown up as something else. Frankly, I think it’s silly to think that the only way a woman can be happy is if she lives her life to suit your particular standards. Look around you, there are practicing Muslim women doctors, lawyers, scientists, painters etc doing great and adding value to society.

And to the point of the thread, no, Islam does not encourage the rape and abuse of any girls or women no matter their skin colour. By all means these men should be prosecuted, named and shamed.

Mama2many73 · 21/01/2025 05:00

Within the last 10yrs I've done a lot of safeguarding/ child exploitation training as a foster carer. On one , which was specific to grooming, we discussed Rochdale etc. In our particular area we were told that police statistics showed that it was primarily white 20+ yr old men who were grooming vulnerable white girls, often known to SS. Religion wasn't mentioned , probably because many white 20+yr old men don't follow a religion

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is not accepting new messages.