To think London is in a major decline?

[Phannyphart]

I’ve lived in London (zone 2) for 10+ years. It’s always been pretty ‘real’ here but since the end of covid really everywhere just seems so, so awful.
Dog shit everywhere, spit everywhere, council owned parks closed and locked, people littering more than ever before. Get on a bus and it’s just people screaming in to a FaceTime on top volume, people blasting TikTok. Kids being stabbed in broad daylight, people shooting up heroin near the nearby primary school. The area has a lot going for it but it really seems wherever I go there is an awful decline.
Has anybody feeling the same actually moved out? Do you regret it?

Have just done the Southwark women and girls safety survey and in my area feel pretty safe. Wouldn't go into parks in the dark and watchful for mobile phone thieves but otherwise we have arts, places to eat, access to shops and decent transport.

Friends who’ve worked in the homelessness sector for a long time say that what’s different now is that a high proportion of London’s homeless people aren’t British nationals - they’re largely younger men who’ve come from Bulgaria, Romania, Albania etc with few skills and poor English, can’t find permanent work and thus have nowhere stable to live. The “traditional” Cardboard City homeless demographic of British ex-servicemen, ex-offenders, those with complex mental health and substance misuse problems etc has been relatively static for a good while. It makes sense, I don’t think I’ve seen a British Big Issue seller in years, it’s all Roma women.

I don't think we should romanticise it too much; I seem to remember wading through litter and rubbish in Clapton to get to a flat in 1997. I just think the poverty has moved outwards

Very true- although I thought Bath was a bit of a dump when I visited last year - not how I remembered it at all!

Agreed. But a few years before that they were everywhere - it seems to come in waves.

And it's not just a London problem - last time I was in Edinburgh it was awful despite Queen Nicola's (still in charge at the time) protestations that everything was better north of the border; ditto in Dublin - awful homelessness though that was pre-covid so I don't know if things have improved since.

The London buzz was hard to find, it’s soulless.

Yes, it’s lost that.

Lifelong Londoner. I feel the same. Everything has a kind of 80’s feel of rising damp, all the houses look a little like ruins, even the new places look kind of desperate. I can’t explain it really. I remember the 90’s being really bright and colourful.

I love London but it’s not at its height at the moment (except Battersea which is looking spectacular at the moment)

Well clearly many of you were not born or remember ''the 3 day week'' of the '70s in London, caused by strikes - when there was either gas or electricity(but that was for whole country too) but not both on same day. Supermarkets were often in darkness if a no electricity day. No sugar or milk (I gave up both permanently in tea at that time). The dead were unburied and rubbish was stacked up on islands in Park Lane. I was in central London and witnessed all this. There were months waiting to get a phone which could only be supplied by BT and they thought they were doing you such a great favour!. etc

Impact from Brexit on the economic situation driving funding cuts for cleaning services etc

Inflation above it’s EU neighbours France, Germany, Spain, Italy… Cost of living crisis means people are fed up and can’t be bothered anymore, driving selfish and entitled behaviours as a reflection of frustration

Wealthy EU immigrants leaving and being replaced by poorer third world immigrants. Means less tax revenues for the country and local councils, more funding cuts… Also some immigrants are not self sufficient and need benefits which puts more pressure on an already strained system.

Well clearly many of you were not born or remember ''the 3 day week'' of the '70s in London

Nope wasn’t born then but is the yardstick really it was shit 50 yrs ago so at least it’s not that shit? We should be progressing!!!

You’ll get called racist here for that - but yes, it’s a massive problem.

I don’t really know why the government doesn’t just deport them all.

The situation is ridiculous. Amazing how many need to use a crutch to get around isn’t it.

I think there's been a massive decline in government messaging as well as a large decline funding for local councils.

No one wants to accept is things cost most money, expecting large local contingents of altruistic litter cleaners etc is unrealistic.

everyone thinks they're tidy and well behaved, except for the one time they don't pickup their rubbish, or move out of the way of oncoming people. etc etc

every one mishap adds up to whatever we've got now.

I agree. But what is the cause?

I know Elephant really well. It’s come a long way in the last 10 years alone. Hackney in 1999 was almost a no-gone zone.

I think if you’ve only lived in London post 2010, you may think it’s going dowhill. Well, it is but it’s nothing new. There was a relative clean period at about 2005 to 2020 (approximately, don’t come after me) when there were still good high street and a lot less homeless people. It’s a natural cycle of a metropolis with a transient population and where millions of people come to try to find their fortune.

There's a paradox here. If you poll people, especially Laura Norder fans who read the Mailograph, they will tell you they want "More bobbies on the beat". But if I'm out somewhere and I see more than one policeman in the space of 500 metres, I don't think "Gosh, I feel super-safe now". I think "Uh-oh, they're expecting something to kick off".

My family members are in a “I grew up in Shoreditch” group. The photos looks like fun, and I imagine it was awful. I’ve looked at the census from those times and in some cases 8 people shared two rooms. Everyone is “so glad they moved” but I’d bet they wish they’d stayed for the house prices!

IMO cities need creative people, artists, musicians, students etc to have energy and thrive (or at least - in the way we imagine).

All of this is being driven out of London by the high cost of living.

Everyone I work with under about 28 lives at home. I’m not much older, but we could at least afford to rent flats together.

Rents unaffordable, no council housing for those kinds of people - it will kill London eventually IMO.

Lived in Shepherds Bush and then Ealing in my 20's. Went back to Ealing recently (30+ years later) and thought it had gone hugely downhill. Went out towards Wembley and had to get off at some random tube station as they weren't running past there and it was really horrible, felt unsafe with druggies and alcoholics. Transport was shite because they had closed parts of lines. Mind you I always thought London was great to visit but a dump to live in and couldn't wait to leave. I think it's one of those places you can only consider 'normal' if you grew up there. Never held any appeal to me at all beyond there being lots of work.

Oh someone mentioned the kids being mugged!! Friends teenage rugby kids robbed broad daylight Putney East Station (I think its East, then you turn left towards Wandsworth there's a waitrose and another station) youths with knives after school hours! These were huge lads. It's constant.
When youth ask me the time I tell them to not try me and my phone is old and shit and to move along 😂
Come to think of it if I could live in Richhmond or Kew I'd probs be happier but those prices are insane near the town centre.

Or there were a set of robberies in Clapham Junction area, a road that was really nice with cute cafes etc, beginning with B? Women were getting robbed, their jewellery mainly taken. Where the bus road is, going to opposite way away from Clapham Junction Station.

I know some neighbours of mine in the bougie 5m+ houses are worried about being robbed all the time.

I think if you take the long term view London has improved massively; it’s much more affluent and major investment has gone into removing pockets of deprivation although the polarization between rich and poor has increased.

The City is having an existential crisis at the moment though: partly Brexit related and partly to do with the pension fund mess. I am concerned about the impact that will have on London long term and I think a lot of people outside the City don’t understand how bad it is.

Its easy to sneer at bankers and fat cats but it’s a major economic hub.

Name changed (ironically) because I might get flamed for this...

Personally, I lay the blame for this with Reagan, Thatcher, the odious Ayn Rand and all their acolytes: the rich, the powerful and the idiots who believe the rich & powerful are on their side. Decades of screaming that the rights and wishes of the individual are much more important than those of the community/state has inevitably resulted in a culture of unbridled selfishness (the greatest virtue according to Rand) and the insane prevalence of main character syndrome. Of course people let their dog shit everywhere, because it's their dog in their world, where other people are insignificant extras. Of course people play their videos/music as loud as they like, because they want to listen to it and what anyone else wants is something entirely beneath consideration. Of course public services close because people who use them aren't willing to pay anything towards them if they have any way of avoiding it, because taxes support services for people who aren't them or their immediate family & friends and therefore shouldn't exist.

The (industrialised) world is a sewer. Society is going to break down completely some time in the not-too-distant future because so many people don't consider themselves to be part of it and are too stupid to realise they can't survive without it. I had hoped this would be far enough in the future that my children wouldn't be caught up in it, but I very much fear that was a vain hope.

I grew up in London and it's always been like that. I remember coming back from two weeks abroad in 2011 and crying at the sight of all the litter, so I soon left after that. There's still a lot going on in London though so the draw is always there.

Last time I was in London was last year and I was shocked at how grubby London was esp the area around the statue of Eros .

Lockdown broke the unspoken codes and barriers. People realised that there is no downside to doing whatever you want, and huge upside to ignoring rules.

You might notice it more in London because there's a high density of people giving zero fucks about anyone but themselves.

Yes I believe it makes one more tolerant - as long as bodies are buried..... and think of Gaza too!