To think London is in a major decline?

[Phannyphart]

I’ve lived in London (zone 2) for 10+ years. It’s always been pretty ‘real’ here but since the end of covid really everywhere just seems so, so awful.
Dog shit everywhere, spit everywhere, council owned parks closed and locked, people littering more than ever before. Get on a bus and it’s just people screaming in to a FaceTime on top volume, people blasting TikTok. Kids being stabbed in broad daylight, people shooting up heroin near the nearby primary school. The area has a lot going for it but it really seems wherever I go there is an awful decline.
Has anybody feeling the same actually moved out? Do you regret it?

I will say though even with regards crime and stabbings the fact they all make headline news shows how comparatively rare it is. I recall discussing with American colleagues (I won’t name the city) about teen deaths in a year London and they laughed at me. One responded “that’s one police beat here.”

London seems to remind me now of 30 plus years ago before Labour came in. Years of neglect.

But the difference now is the volume of people, and scruffiness has moved from the centre of town to the suburbs. London poverty is now in the outer zones. Much more Parisian.

I think the population is nearly 9 million now: I think it was 5.5 when I came. It does make a big difference to the quality of life.

I think London is definitely better than in the 80s but I do think that some areas are beginning to feel a bit more unsafe or are at least no longer getting as secure as before. For example, yes Brixton is now more 'white' but I also think that despite its new M&S, deprivation is certainly still there and things arent getting better. We live in Herne Hill and whilst it's certainly 'safer' than before, low level crime is constant, kids are constantly mugged for their phones etc. Shops have closed, Lordship lane is full of empty units. Despite gentrification - there is still a huge difference between SW London and even the poshest bits of SELondon - and I dont think the gap is closing anymore.

There’s been a huge increase in homelessness over the last 10-15 years, awful.

And then things like waste collection etc are down to local councils but they have been underfunded so haven’t been doing everything they used to.

London as a whole, I think is still very vibrant and hopeful as a city. There are some issues that are nationwide like the decline of high street shows away from central London that needs to be addressed though.

Completely.

Rich live cheek-by-jowl with the not-so-rich. Move 2 streets down and it is a different world. London is constantly changing and evolving. Same as it has always been.

I am very happy in my area of London. Estate agents could not leaflet our house enough.

I'm in zone 6, in an area of mixed/middling affluence. In the local high street there are more homeless people than there used to be, several closed down shops, and too many tat (£/phone/vape/ bookies) shops. The playground in our local park has a lot of broken equipment. Dog mess and litter are problems.

But on the whole, things are pretty good. My DCs schools are excellent. There's a good community and we never feel unsafe. We have excellent amenities and public transport and wonderful green spaces.

I travel quite a bit and the whole country seems to be in decline - I think this area has fared slightly better than average if anything.

We're in zone 2 NW1 and the parks are lovely, the nearest is a royal park which is well maintained. Dog poo and litter is a real problem and very frustrating but I don't see how it can be stopped unfortunately.
Stabbings haven't affected me directly although I read about them, but it doesn't make a difference to my life.
I've not found the buses too bad but then I generally prefer to use the tube. Bus reliability is awful.
Lots of homeless and drug issues but again it doesn't affect me

I wouldn't want to move out, we spend more of our free time doing touristy things with the dcs and those areas tend to be cleaner. We have an easy walking commute to work and dcs go to school 5 mins walk and a longer commute would mean lower quality of life.

...abandoned sofas...

Their first album is criminally underrated.

It depends where you are, here still has some good change, but just a short distance away the decline really is noticeable

We’re more in gentrification areas which have changed over the last two decades

On the latter areas I was just talking about it, I agree with you on that it can be quite bad

Some parts of London were very different in the 80s-90s & only really changed in the mid to late 90s. Where I grew up is safer now but there are less families. I think lots of families have been moved out, people having less or no dc. London isn’t as cool as it once was, people don’t seem as hopeful or happy as before.

I’ve noticed it too. The amount of dog shit is unreal. Any green space just stinks of dog poo.

rubbish absolutely everywhere either from dumping or foxes. It’s dire

Also in London- zone 1/2 and noticed the same thing.
place definitely very scruffy.

however, having visited friends and relatives over Xmas in other parts of the country m, I think London has escaped lightly.

the ‘local’ areas defiant have more boarded up shops but nothing like high streets in rest of UK

Rich live cheek-by-jowl with the not-so-rich. Move 2 streets down and it is a different world. London is constantly changing and evolving. Same as it has always been

this was certainly the case in my childhood but things have definitely changed imo. Councils moving families out of London, lack of social housing, high housing costs means some schools are not that diverse. I think there is more division now.

Again it depends where you go, some crap parts some lovely ones, it's the same the world over

Declining standards of behaviour everywhere and “decent” people scared to say anything for fear of being called a Karen or a snob or racist.

People with their feet on the seats in public transport, playing loud music, drinking/smoking using drugs, dropping litter and letting their dogs shit all over the place. Mattresses in the front garden, piles of junk flytipped on the corner. Say anything and you get a mouthful of abuse at best, or a threat of violence or a knife pulled out.

My neighbour who is in her 90s and has lived in a housing association property on the same street her entire life tells me it did not used to be like this. People took a pride in their neighbourhood. Parents disciplined their own children.

I think one of the big issues in London is the hollowing out of the “working classes”. You have to be rich, or have access to housing association/council housing or be prepared to live in a shared house to live in central London now. Council housing is allocated on points so people in work and working families hardly ever qualify. They move out of London - or to the outer zones. The rich move to Zone 1 or zone 2 enclaves. This leaves a disproportionate number of people with problems in a lot of Zone 2.

Until society in general starts to insist on better standards of behaviour things will only get worse.

Don’t think it has much to do with Brexit btw.

Sofa season is a London classic. That is not a new thing.

The change I see is in the London suburbs. These used to be quite well off. Now not some much.

Some areas like Hackney and Elephant are totally bourgeois now. These were once dangerous places. The centre is now totally gentrified (and also very boring!).

It’s not a London issue, it’s an anywhere issue except if you don’t live in the south east you have to deal with significantly less funding for everything.

The decline is probably country-wide but depends the standard you’re declining from. Eg our high street is dead (although we’ve lived here 10 years and some independents pre date us and still going strong) and there’s loads of dog poo but certainly no heroin being overtly used, or stabbings. One teen was sadly stabbed to death at a party a couple of years ago but that was enormous news and still is, because so unusual.

I only have experience of London 2000s+ so cannot compare to the 80s/90s.

Homelessness is a growing problem across the board. I am regularly in Birmingham and it has noticeably skyrocketed.

It’s nothing new and it happens elsewhere too. I recently visited my home town (Scandinavia) after a 10 year break and was quite shocked at it’s decline. It used to be a buzzing university town with lots of shops, cafe’s and nightclubs. Now it was mainly empty retails spaces, multitude of cheap take-aways and a selection of alcoholics gathering in the middle of the pedestrian section what used to be a nice spot but you wouldn’t want to sit there now.

I moved to London in 1998 and lived in many flatshares. I only lived in the cheapest and nastiest locations as I wanted to prioritise money for clothes and going out . I lived in Clapton, Herne Hill, Camberwell and Crystal Palace. Clapton in 1999 was grim and the streets were full of dog shit. It’s the one place where I really noticed the dog shit. I also remember always rejecting flatshares in Peckham, that was my line in the sand. And look at it now!

I worked in a reataurant back then and had to take a night bus home. There was once a stabbing too. Another time I was sexually assaulted on a packed to the full tube carriage. I also had to walk along the Southbank at night after my shift and there used to be big groups of homeless people setting up for the night under the railway arches. At some point there were all cleared off. Ditto with romanian beggars and babies on Hungerford Bridge.

I just think in London it depends on how much money you have. It’s always been like that. I was envious of friends who could afford much nicer flats in leafy areas with a tube access!

Brixton is way better than in the 80s

😁

Homelessness used to be epic. I remember cardboard cities in the 1980s, tramps camping in Lincoln's Inn in the 1990s, people selling their shoes in Brick Lane for cash.

I don't see anything like that now. Nothing like it.

I'm more worried that London will become totally gentrified and homoginised. (I've been here 20+yrs)

Dog poo I agree with, so bad

And we usually get rubbish cleared by a nice guy who hasn’t seemed to be back since Christmas

Hope he’s not been cut out