To think London is in a major decline?

[Phannyphart]

I’ve lived in London (zone 2) for 10+ years. It’s always been pretty ‘real’ here but since the end of covid really everywhere just seems so, so awful.
Dog shit everywhere, spit everywhere, council owned parks closed and locked, people littering more than ever before. Get on a bus and it’s just people screaming in to a FaceTime on top volume, people blasting TikTok. Kids being stabbed in broad daylight, people shooting up heroin near the nearby primary school. The area has a lot going for it but it really seems wherever I go there is an awful decline.
Has anybody feeling the same actually moved out? Do you regret it?

There's a homeless hostel just off the Strand

I live outside London in the South East and this isn’t happening where I live. Local parks have all been renovated within the past 3-10 years and are clean and well looked after by the parish councils. No stabbings, no spitting.

Dog mess has increased undoubtedly and, as Londoners move out for more space, some of the yobby kids are coming out, but it’s nothing like OP is describing which sounds horrific. I think I’ve heard of 2 stabbings in the past year in a nearby town and both were adults.

I think the tourist areas are (mostly) neat and tidy but honestly 10-15 mins outside of Oxford street and you’ll see it, it’s a mess at the moment.

out of interest, where did you move to?

Wow that sounds really nice. I’d just like to live somewhere where people respect the area and actually care about where they live. Coupled with a council that wants to invest. It seems like my area is in a race to the bottom.

It’s not just London. I live in what would be considered a fairly decent area, not the best but not the worst by far. Semi rural. Yet the decline is very visible and drug use has never been so obvious. Some places you drive through and the smell of weed is strong enough to make you nauseous. Been here all my life and never known that before . It’s very sad.

It’s one of the defining characteristics of London that everyone thinks it was better when they were younger. The older you get, the better it was.

Join any ‘I grew up in...’ FB group to see people my age - sixty-plus - moaning about how London’s no longer the London they loved. Which is why they moved to Marbella five years ago, having lived in Crawley since ‘92. My grandparents were talking the same rubbish during the seventies.

London, actually, is in a state of constant change. It has been for two thousand years. If it wasn’t upsetting people, it’d be because it was a museum, frozen in time and irrelevant.

Like Bath.

It sounds awful. Do you own your property/ rent privately?

If so, move out, the commute isn’t bad from lots of areas and you’ll pay less and get more both in terms of space and lifestyle.

Ha! That’s very true. Thank you for this perspective. I guess when I was 10 years younger, what was grubby and a bit gross was probably edgy and exciting. Maybe you’re right, I’ve changed too.

I can only speak as a tourist but it had been quite a few years since I'd been to London when I went last year. From social media etc I fully expected to be stabbed on arrival, robbed, see marauding gangs waving machetes or be caught up in a Palestine march.

Needless to say none of that happened. I felt really safe, even at night. It was clean as any capital city and my God, as someone from far up north, what I'd give to be able to get around on public transport the way you can in London!

Obviously that's only central London I'm talking about, not outside of there but nowhere is perfect.

When I went to Edinburgh before christmas I had the opposite experience, I didn't feel safe at all, drunks and druggies all over the place, got accosted by someone shouting about Palestine and then a man was demanding I go back into my hotel (as didn't have cash on me) to get him some money for a sandwich. Compared to the previous times I'd been to Edingurgh I really noticed a change for thr worse. I'm also sure that's not everyone's experience but it put me off.

All places have pros and cons but I thought London was brilliant.

I live in Zone 2 east London, in one of the shittier area - I dont see that. Its gentrification galore, new buildings going up, new shops everywhere. Amount of gangs, lingering men and dog shit has not been changed in the last 15 years, as far as I can see. Parks are open and full of people, terraced houses cost 3mln, business as usual.

I think you see what you want to see. A lot of people like to decry how the country is in decline etc, it seem to give them some kind of weird pleasure.

Born and bred in NE London - moved out 20years ago and now wouldn’t go back if you paid me

I very rarely venture into London anymore other than the odd night out in Shoreditch/Clerkenwell then straight home again

You don't have to live there, though.

Oh believe me it doesn’t give me pleasure I wish it wasn’t like this!
Interesting as you must be my neighbour, in a better location if terraces are £3m.
It’s very very noticeable here.

Feel free to pay my mortgage off!

100% agree with this.

Our area of zone 2 has actually improved a lot in the last decade with more school streets so dropping kids off at school feels much safer and less polluted. Very few empty shops and lots of busy cafes and restaurants. Public transport is generally reliable, there have always been idiot teenagers messing around on buses at school finishing time so nothing new there.

I think sometimes people who are considering a move out of London feel they have to paint this picture of a dark, doomed city in order to justify their decision. Just move out if it suits you, life in a huge fast moving city is not for everyone and there's no shame in admitting that.

Brixton is way better than in the 80s

"life in a huge fast moving city is not for everyone and there's no shame in admitting that." patronising much?

How is this to do with Brexit? Why do people like you wilfully ignore the impact the Tory/LibDem austerity policy has had on the UK.

My siblings have lived in London for decades. No problems. They love it. I suppose that like everywhere, there are good areas and bad areas.

We're zone 2 W/NW London.

Definitely an increase in dog shit since covid. A spate of violent incidents lately too.

But my god. I grew up in this area and it was much more 'edgy' / dangerous back in the nineties.

So I agree there's been a bit of a decline lately but it hasn't yet slipped back to where we were... and I hope it won't.

YABU, London has always had good bits and bad bits. Good day and bad days

Well if you are nearby you must know that house prices are not consistent, you get crappy council blocks and insanely expensive houses on the next street.

The way we see it so differently only confirms that one persons' "decline" is the other persons "business as usual"... But I love London and would never want to live anywhere else - if I had to leave it I would leave the country.

No increase in dogshit here (SW London Z3) even though a huge increase in dog ownership. A bit more open drug dealing (but it was always there, just not as blatant). Otherwise not really noticed any difference.

There are some very rough spots in London, if you don’t like the particular area you live in then move as living in those surroundings can have a direct impact on your MH, I lived in London for 15 years and the area that I was living in for the last 3 years (Tottenham) was so grim that it was part of the reason I left London altogether, every time I left the house you just see miserable shit every where

I lived in some lovely areas as well but a lot of London is quite grim and depressing

Of all the areas that I lived in , I probably thought South Clapham was the least grim

Couldn’t agree more with your OP.

One thing that worries me greatly is the surge of sexual harassment on public transport.

i have noticed new posters when I was recently on the Tube about pressing being an unwanted sexual harassment. We already have the warnings they staring is harassment as well.

It worries me that there is even the need for that and that it obviously seems to be escalating.

And also bloody rubbish everywhere.