To think London is in a major decline?

[Phannyphart]

I’ve lived in London (zone 2) for 10+ years. It’s always been pretty ‘real’ here but since the end of covid really everywhere just seems so, so awful.
Dog shit everywhere, spit everywhere, council owned parks closed and locked, people littering more than ever before. Get on a bus and it’s just people screaming in to a FaceTime on top volume, people blasting TikTok. Kids being stabbed in broad daylight, people shooting up heroin near the nearby primary school. The area has a lot going for it but it really seems wherever I go there is an awful decline.
Has anybody feeling the same actually moved out? Do you regret it?

Would you say the same about Thamesmead and Abbey Wood? I know a couple that came from those places and say they are complete shitholes@

IMHO it’s not just London.

Cheers, Brexit …

@BigSkies2022 you make a really good point. Essentially there is no police or council support anymore. Crimes won't be investigated, local things won't get sorted. That makes even place as naice as Dulwich village feel precarious.

Yes, sexual harassment used to be tolerated in a way that it isn’t now. When I was younger we were expected to just laugh off having our bums pinched in nightclubs and pubs. Wolf whistling used to be considered harmless fun.

Attitudes have changed.

Earn more, pay more taxes, people, and social care insurance, and pool your risks, and things might stand a chance of improving.

we have an ageing population though so you can’t just keep increasing income tax. plus younger generations are paying more & more for less. housing has fucked the economy.

Interesting, if no one liked London, who buys these 3 millions pounds houses

I have a flat in Highgate/Archway but live overseas, moved 5 years ago. Even though Highgate is considered a nice area there are some dodgy parts, like everywhere in London. I never felt safe in the 10 years I lived there. I lived in Stoke Newington and woke up one morning to find a crack addict had been to the toilet on my doorstep. Apparently that's a thing. I saw a woman having a wee in the street (also Stoke Newington). Been chased by a man wielding a brick in Islington. My friend witnessed someone about to be murdered near Findbury Park. She ended up as a witness in a murder trial. There is no way on earth I would raise my kid in London now. It's fun when you're young. But now I'm overseas I appreciate being able to go for a run outside and not worry about being mugged or stabbed.

Yes it definitely has seen a noticeable decline in last 10 years. I have lived around London my whole life but it is very noticeably less safe now. I live on the sleepiest street and out of the blue we had some people turn up on mopeds doing a deal which resulted in some violence. The majority of people on my road are elderly! There have been muggings of children, a lady sadly had a drug overdose in front of a shop, you are at constant risk of losing your phone. There are far more no go areas. I used to go out in the evenings in London a lot but now there is barely any night life- bars and clubs have shut. It is also unsafe to be coming home late anyway. I have witnessed people just nick things out of stores and just walk out.

I am a big proponent of broken windows theory. The police need to go strict on small crimes. We need to put the fear into committing crimes now but now I think most people think they will get away with it. The councils need to start clearing the leaves and graffiti and rubbish and making people take pride In their area again. The 90s were not perfect while I growing up but I don’t remember it being as bad as this.

I don't know about London but I live in what would be considered a nice town in the Midlands and can't believe how much it and so many other places are going downhill. The littering alone is so so depressing 😔

So many more cars, parked up on the grassy areas we used to play on as children. It's not safe for children to play outside anymore on the road I grew up on (cul de sac).

I can only see further decline so what is the answer??? Culling is the only thing I can think of but probably breaking a human rights law there somewhere. 😉

@Igavebirthtoabanana I was born and brought up in south London and went to school in the Elephant in the early seventies. It was grim at that time with many homeless alcoholic men. We would run through the subway hoping we didn’t meet any! At my school they would queue at the Convent door where the nuns would hand out packed lunches.
I went through it on the train awhile ago and saw how the big the area was where the shopping centre used to be. Its certainty changed.

@ClareBlue

Except I travel to plenty of countries that are not in the EU and don't see this. And then there are those that are in the EU that have cities with exactly the same issues. It a lazy and misinformed argument to blame the civic decline of UK urban areas on Brexit. Dublin is dangerous and dirty, Marsaille is in a different league to London for violence and filth, Paris, Naples. Frankfurt is seriously dangerous in certain areas. Berlin has no go areas. There are numerous drivers for this but Brexit is way down the line.
And it's continually used as an excuse to not do anything positive or address the issues. We told you so, bla bla bla. Adds nothing to finding solutions, does it.

Yes and no. It's true that these issues affect all major cities and many are worse than London. And it's also true that banging on about Brexit doesn't help us move forward.

But it is unquestionably true that Brexis has damaged the City of London's competitiveness and has made the London economy less competitive. Pretending that isn't a factor all this is silly.

Brought up in SE London from the 60s, moved out 30 years ago and visit regularly. I never felt unsafe, lived relatively close to Peckham, but it is such a different London now. It had areas that were undeveloped and unloved, but now so much that is dirty, ill kept, rough and neglected, with enclaves of wealth /gentrification that simply underline the differences imo. When you know how it was and how it is now, you really notice the changes. I now live in Hampshire and we have areas of poor investment and neglect, again noticeable declines in the last 10 years or so in some towns / villages. It seems that the UK really could do with getting the basics right throughout the country and not just be obsessed with development of homes (that seem to be beneficial to developers but often divorced from infrastructure and social mobility opportunities), but putting far more into improving what already is struggling / failing and getting pride and community cohesion back into our country.

I’m in the middle of zone 3, south. It’s lovely! Obviously there are bad bits but I’ve been here 15 years and not noticed a decline. Oxford street is fairly dire though.

Interesting, if no one liked London, who buys these 3 millions pounds houses

Well so much of it in the last 20 years or so has been funded by equity fuelled in part by a decade plus of low interest rates. We never really recovered from the 08 crash & Brexit has not helped to put it mildly.

I won't comment on London since I haven't lived there in almost 30 years (as a student) and rarely visit, but I do take issue with the idea that the whole of the UK is in the same boat and is depressing and declining. I live on the Oxford-Cambridge belt as do many of my friends and relatives and it is thriving - heck, even our local public transport is improving. The UK has more to offer than just the City of London and the jobs that the finance sector creates.

I live in zone 4 and love it. Best of easy access to central as well as easy access to countryside. Some people are convinced it’s gone rapidly downhill but having lived in 5 different towns and cities in the last 10 years, London is still doing better than everywhere else. As far as I’m concerned when you’re bored of London, you’re bored of life.

It's not just London and it's been happening for 20 years, particularly since the GFC and especially since the pandemic.

Very true. Although it's housing and lots of other long standing decisions that have fucked the economy!

I’ve not noticed it in my little patch of London. I have noticed more bobbies on the beat here, maybe that’s why?

Not in my price range in Wimbledon village sorry to say. I have prioritised other expenses that involve my children and their futures. Not that my uk home is in the village, it's midway down where the commoners are!

Sorry you find that weird, in my family this is normal.

I also maintain two homes in different countries plus children (and specific sport) and pets.

Maybe rather that be sarcastic think outside of your own little box that some people can't afford the ivy or the little posh boutiques and down the hill there barely anything there, some charity shops, Greggs, Starbucks etc. Shocking that I don't shop designer nor eat out, as a single mum too so 🖐

I grew up in the 80s and it was super grim then and so much dog poo and crime. Personally, I think London is still much better. I live in zone 3 and think things are on balance ok, over the years our high street has lost a lot of the old retail giants but it has gained some community led arts areas and independent shops. I go into central london often and I don't see major decline, it's really buzzing and there are new buildings including theatres but yes Oxford street needs a revamp. Plus the Elizabeth line has proven to be really useful. The big problem is poverty and homelessness, never have I seen it so bad.

I've left London now (emigrated) but my pocket of SE London was lovely. So it might just be an East London thing.

I think it's a great city and it didn't feel like it declined in the 12 years I lived there. Admittedly I mainly frequented nice, leafy areas and stayed away from famously sketchy areas.

I grew up in London and live on the border of zone 2 & 3 in an area I remember from the 80s and 90s. It is so much nicer than it was, the swimming pool was redone just before austerity cuts and is now well run as is the gym. The coffee shops on the high street are thriving, there's a good sense of community.
But there is still some dog shit and very often beggars.

I do think there was a high point in the late 2000s when all of London was looking pretty good and it's kind of been going downhill since

I don't want to go into politics whether Brexit has made an impact on London or not. What many of us living outside the UK who loved London is how much the city has changed for the worse since the 90s/2000s to the last few years.

I'm also a bit fed up always reading the justification of "European countries/cities have also declined". Yes, living costs have hit western societies the same but many cities in Europe keep investing heavily in their cities, unlike London - a city seriously in decline for those of us who loved it many years ago.

Leaving aside austerity, Brexit and various other undeniable macro-influences, the number of people who have mentioned dog shit makes it clear there's definitely also been a decline in personal responsibility.