To think London is in a major decline?

[Phannyphart]

I’ve lived in London (zone 2) for 10+ years. It’s always been pretty ‘real’ here but since the end of covid really everywhere just seems so, so awful.
Dog shit everywhere, spit everywhere, council owned parks closed and locked, people littering more than ever before. Get on a bus and it’s just people screaming in to a FaceTime on top volume, people blasting TikTok. Kids being stabbed in broad daylight, people shooting up heroin near the nearby primary school. The area has a lot going for it but it really seems wherever I go there is an awful decline.
Has anybody feeling the same actually moved out? Do you regret it?

I wondered how long it would be before the OP returned to post about how it’s probably the fault of immigrants. Yawningly predictable.

The whole of the UK is in a gradual decline due to general underinvestment and mismanagement, largely by the last govt. How anyone expects growth outside the single market on our doorstep is beyond me. Anyway, problems re: drugs, littering, anti-social behaviour etc will always increase when investment in education, central funding for councils, rehabs, homelessness services etc fall. A mere glance at any economic history text book will show you that.

Maybe stop assuming it’s all the fault of black and brown people.

Me too; we recently have been in Sutton, New Maldon, Kingston, Thames-Ditton and so on - it is absolutely gorgeous

Same up north where I am. Pavements caked in shite (second time this week I’ve had to scrub my pram wheels down 😡).
Smackheads and feral teens running riot. One threw a brick at a bus for no reason beside mine last week. Week previous it was on the local Facebook page kids had climbed on the GP surgery roof and were pelting rocks at passing traffic!
I used to live in an area of town with a high Asian/African /Jewish population. Still quite a rough area but never experienced such antisocial behaviour and the streets were clean. It’s a disgrace and utterly grim.

I agree that austerity, brexit, lockdowns all had a hand in this but I think the community makeup also has a part to play.

Where I live in East London I see so many different cultures doing their best to live within their own bubbles that all problems are just somebody elses problem.

I see people dropping litter, stealing phones, raiding shops in gangs, dumping rubbish and mattresses, dog crap everywhere and generally not taking care of where they live.

Theres no sense of pride anymore because nobody seems to be pulling in the same direction. I love(d) London but it is indeed turning in to an absolute shit hole. I've spent my whole life here but I'm fast approaching the point where I want to move out.

JFK had it right when he said:

"Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country"

Sounds like you're in certain pockets of Tower Hamlets, which is rather notorious for being badly run/interesting politics. Waltham Forest has definitely improved. Newham has some way to go. Every area is different, shop around before you leave! And do your bit. I hope I do mine by keeping a tidy, nice front garden.

That said, over a decade of national underinvestment in public services hasn't helped.

<takes out false teeth>

Eeh, you should have been around in the 1960s and 1970s. Dog shit everywhere, because if you'd told people they needed to pick it up, everyone would have laughed in your face.

I don't know... I lived in London as a child in the 70s and literally the overwhelming memory I have of it was that there was dogshit EVERYWHERE. My earliest memories are of dogshit on pavements.

I'm not saying I like it but the idea that its suddenly got worse it a myth.

Hmm, I live there and there is plenty of litter and dog shit. And a lot of empty shop/restaurant units in Blackheath. Not saying it isn’t nice in lots of ways, but it’s not utopia!

I see people dropping litter, stealing phones, raiding shops in gangs, dumping rubbish and mattresses, dog crap everywhere and generally not taking care of where they live.

Where on earth do you go and see this? I've never seen anywhere like that, particularly not stealing phones or raiding shops in gangs, and have lived in London all my life. I have seen fly tipping a couple of times, not anyone doing it but after the event, they tend to do that late at night, and both times involved a mattress but that was years ago. The council cleared both.

Was it Dr. Samuel Johnson who said that last line?

It's an amazing city I have to agree. History is teeming everywhere. That blue plaque scheme is great.

Remember my first time in London and singing to myself "Panic on the streets of London". Very excited. Eyes lit up when on the train coming into Liverpool street station when I saw the gherkin.

In terms of safety, any major city is the same. New York (far safer than it was in the 80s when over 2,000 were being murdered per year) is now seen as one of the more safer US cities yet it still has 5 times the homicides of London (and both have similar populations so it's very like for like)

@catcafeatno10 this is so true! Your "on the other hand" list is everywhere I have links to so I go there!

People are scum.

That's the answer.
I'm not sure why.

I was raised to not litter, not swear near kids, be polite, move for other people,.don't park your car like an asshole, leave space on pavements for wheelchairs and pushchairs, pick up dog mess, don't let dog off lead if you're not in a park, put dog on lead if you see someone you don't know etc etc.

All this has gone out the window with the majority of people it seems.

Sure there's one or two who aren't scum, but they're fewer and further between now than they were...

Remember Keeping Up Appearances?

Hyacinth and Onslow..
In a weird way it seems the country is now full of Onslows and there's fewer Hyacinths then ever..

London is not what it was it the late 90s it’s deteriorated big time …we have millions more people now and it’s a mess and so sad to see.

I’ve seen grown men doing the toilet in the street in central London beyond grim.
also people spitting which is gross 🤮. We have lots of cultures London is a melting pot always has been but now we are seeing behaviours that just don’t fit with our ways …think someone else law touched on that sanitation etc …

How so, specifically?

I think politicians should take note of the number of references to litter and dog shit on this thread.

Stop people doing that and you will masssively improve the quality of life of Londoners.

Start with campaigns in schools.

Phone and bag theft in London is rife - at least half my friends have had at least one phone or bag stolen in the past couple of years, mostly in the West End and central West. I had my clutch bag snatched in Soho about six months ago - gang of youths on bicycles just swarmed the pavement from behind and grabbed any phones or bags that were easily detached from their owners. Likewise shop raiding - I’ve been in Lewisham shopping centre twice now (and I don’t go to Lewisham shopping centre that often) and just seen a group of men in hoodies and balaclavas shove their way into a shop, grab armfuls of stuff from shelves / rails and leg it.

Our council is pretty great about clearing up fly tipping, but it’s still a problem.

The road my youngest's school is on, and the other school a few hundred meters away, are the worst streets for it in our area.

It has always been bad, I definitely remember lots of dog shit in the 70s/80s when I was a kid, but I do think it's worse now. There are more dogs, for a start.

Waltham Forest.

My local boots and tesco has been stormed by gangs twice in the last month.

And phone snatchers are everywhere. We had a workplace session run by security to make us aware of thieves operating on ebikes outside of the office and how we shouldnt have our phones out on display.

We also have a railway bridge crossover point which is now a no-go area for anyone not in a gang. Took over 5 muggings before we got CCTV.

We have some flytipping hotspots. Dont know why the the council arent installing CCTV.

I live in London and completely agree

Brent in the 80s was awful, pre Brexit and all. It is much more liveable now. Queens Park, Kensal Rise and Willesden have changed lots, for the better.

Having said that, I'd love to see:

less dog shit
less rubbish in front yards
more police
more street cleaners
less gangs hanging around

The spitting and the rubbish are disgusting - and come from a specific section of society. I sold up and moved to Surrey a year ago because of it and the constant mopeds.

“Failed to assimilate” is quite accusatory and strong. Are you familiar with the story behind Altab Ali park and the experience of Bangladeshi families in the area over the decades? How about “tried to assimilate got murdered or assaulted for stepping out of line but still managed to form strong communities”. I’m not denying there’s a deep problem of poverty and education in Tower Hamlets, and it is segregated between ethnicities, I wanted to pick up on your statement. There’s a reason those communities are insular.

The Swadinatha Trust, annual “Season of Bangladesh Drama” local to you, Oitit-Jo, Rich Mix all hold events to share Bangladeshi culture. If you’re worried about integration and a self proclaimed liberal leftist perhaps reflect on your own part in whether it succeeds?

https://socialistworker.co.uk/in-depth/we-won-this-place-uncovering-bengali-migrants-fight-for-housing/

https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/gallery/2024/jul/09/from-protests-to-dancing-in-the-street-east-londons-bengali-community-in-pictures

I agree with PP that Greenwich is lovely but the local council does a lot to value all cultures.

Not sure why it's such a problem then. Cannabis doesn't generally make people violent - if anything, the opposite.

I can see the problem with smack etc. in terms of the public health hazard from used needles, and increased burglary to pay for it. But I can't get excited about people smoking a joint in public or being open about dealing in it.

Coral, the quotation is actually: "When a man is tired of London, he is tired of life; for there is in London all that life can afford".

Samuel Johnson would not have said, 'bored of'.

Chessor, I wholeheartedly agree with you about London. It's amazing. Just don't go to the dodgy bits. If you were in any other city, town, sometimes even a village, you would be advised about some areas and avoid them, at least in the evening. London is no different in that respect.