To think it isn’t appropriate (nursery)

[CherryCheery]

For a member of staff to kiss a child (17 months old) on the temple.

Plenty of hugs and cuddles yes definitely. Kissing no. I've done some safeguarding training briefly and think it was mentioned in that on appropriate behaviour.
HOWEVER. Trying to apply this situation to myself if I was waiting to collect dc from nursery and could see this happen through the door window and it was one of the staff members who I have a good relationship with and not someone I'd never met then I'd be absolutely fine.
Fwiw my child kisses the cats, Henry the hoover and random objects he loves. He's a very very hands on cuddly boy!

@CaptainMyCaptain
You are correct.

In my experience all LA nurseries have had a QTS member of staff in the nursery.

I don’t this private schools at any level need QTS.

Just by doing a quick internet search I can already see the disparage between LA lead job roles and the private sector.

Yes, of course everyone who actually works with children knows they put themselves at risk professionally. That's something entirely different though. That's workers protecting themselves from allegations which is unfortunately the reality when we pay for people we don't have a natural relationship with to care for our babies. It's an unnatural situation, therefore the conflict arises.

You also know as well as I do that primary and secondary are different developmental stages. High levels of physical contact is necessary for younger ones, it tapers off as they grow. A kiss is a natural impulse, babies are delightful! Teens are not, in that way.

It wouldn’t bother me in the slightest but this is your child and if it makes you uncomfortable you’re within your rights to ask them not to. I’d speak in private to the staff member and not make it official though. I couldn’t do that to someone who was caring towards my child.

Baby and toddlers at nursery fine- I would expect it

Secondary pupil would be - well many teenagers find that off from parents

So somewhere in the middle

First year in Primary is pretty much a key worker who is aiming to get a child set up for school - the transition to a formal environment so it wouldn't raise my eyebrows in reception if a child was badly distressed

Baby's are not miniature adults - their needs are different , their communication is different

We don't have fewer wiredos as we become more hands off as a society and most of the weirdos are inside the family and trusted by the adults

I think they're just different things, although I'm not in England so maybe the expectations are different there. Here nursery schools are either associated with a primary school or standalone but they will have a primary school teacher in each room and it will be run like a P1 classroom. Whereas a private nursery is childcare and the staff in the preschool room have the same qualifications as the staff in the baby room - various levels of childcare qualifications but not teachers.

Both great though, just different things. I wouldn't want my 3yo in the nursery school setting for 5 full days, just as I wouldn't want my 5yo in a P1 classroom until 5:30.

All fabulous staff though who do a great job. And I wouldn't have an issue with any of them giving our DC a kiss on the forehead.

They are vetted but some things slip through the cracks. It's not unheard of. Just google Vanessa George, and there's a few others I can't think of the name of. I do realise that you can't go through life being worried about everything and you need faith in people but you trust the nursery organisation as a whole, not the individuals who work there because beyond their work role, you don't know them. And not kissing a child is not such a hardship. That aside, what about coldsores and hygiene?

What a sad world we are in when nursery workers, who naturally become attached to the children they care for, and the children attached to them, can no longer show spontaneous signs of affection in case it is deemed unprofessional or inappropriate.

Next stop Romanian orphanages.

@B0xes
Therefore making it inappropriate to kiss a child that is not your own?

Primary and Secondary are absolutely completely different developmental stages.
My primary School aged children still like a lot of hugs and kisses from us, but I would never be comfortable with their primary teacher kissing their forehead.

I understand it is very much a different relationship when the child is at a preschool setting as their key workers will have a handful of children they are responsible for and the bond they have is much stronger than a primary school teacher will have, but regardless of that it is still inappropriate to kiss a child that is not yours.

If this was raised in a setting then the key worker will be spoken to and if it continues there would be disciplinary action taken.

Most nurseries have a policy where their staff should not kiss the children. Regardless of peoples thought on here it has been deemed inappropriate by settings for a variety of reasons.

It's a kiss on the head. Very different to kissing on the face/mouth.

You do realise that adding 'each to their own' to your post doesn't hide the fact you're a judgemental prick with a superiority complex?

Good luck getting a 4 or 5 year old to perfectly recount their day 😆 mine can't even tell me what she had for lunch

One of the reasons I picked my DCs nursery was because the staff were all very hands on with the babies and toddlers. Every time I went in they were cuddling children or had them playing on their lap. I loved that and my children enjoyed it too. If you're not happy, ask the staff not to kiss your child or choose a more hands-off nursery.

Yes affection can be shown without physical touch but babies NEED physical touch, and yes 17 month is still a baby! Some children this age will be in nursery full time 8am-6pm Monday to Friday. Are you suggesting these children are never held and cuddled? How sad for them! A quick peck on the forehead is absolutely fine and I would hope that a vetted professional who I have deemed safe and responsible for my child would give them that affection if they needed it. And they are not a stranger, they may be to you but to your child they are one of their main caregivers!

The same virtually unvetted stranger that you're happy to leave your child with several hours a day? Doing intimate care?

Ok then 🙄

@onceuponatimelived

I’m just a mother who would NEVER allow another stranger, vetted or unvetted to touch my child through the guise of affection

The guise? If you're not a troll you are completely bonkers. Your life will not be lived well being on high alert like this all the time and your child will be emotionally damaged by your suspicion of other people.

I wouldn't have an issue with a small peck on the head at that age.

Given the amount of time infants and toddlers spend in childcare, I believe it would ultimately be more damaging for their main caregivers not to express affection towards them. Young children literally need affection and physical contact to grow and thrive, when they don't receive enough of this it causes a myriad of developmental and behavioural issues.

Provided this was being done publicly (ie in front of other staff as per the settings childcare ratios) and that there was no other concerning or inappropriate behaviour towards the child, I don't see an issue with it.

I would want my children to feel comforted and cared for by those providing care for them.

I would be happy that my child was loved and cared for by their nursery worker

children need affection

I’m glad at school if dd7 falls over /has headache etx that she can have a cuddle with her teacher /ta

and If they kissed her on the head I wouldn’t think anything strnage

lips a no

head /hair not an problem

I don't see the difference between a male kiss on the template and a female one. Would it be different if op had a son? A kiss on the temple isn't sexual.

Imagine if you had an accident and your boss came in to help you change your pants. Or if you fell over and hurt yourself and they picked you up, carried you inside and put a plaster on your booboo and wrote a note to take home to your partner.
It's almost like it's an ENTIRELY different relationship.

And the idea that childcare workers shouldn't be affectionate in any sense is awful. My kids ADORE their nursery/ reception teachers. They aren't unvetted strangers, they're vetted staff who's job is to CARE for my child in loco parentis as well as tech them. I'd be gutted if my kid threw their arms around a teacher for a hug and she just disentangled herself and told him off for touching her

I think it's ok because they need affection, but at the same time feel sad it's not a family member doing it.

Exactly. Kids don't stop needing stuff just because they're not with us.

"I know I provide all of the care my child needs at home" at HOME yes. What about when they've fallen out with their best friend and are crying in the changing room and just need a cuddle? Half our year 5's give the TA a hug before they go home. My Squirrel at Scouts will always come in and give me a hug. It's ok for them to have bonds with someone other than you.

Many very young babies & children are in childcare from 8am - 6pm 5 days a week, often spending more awake time with carers than parents. Do you expect them to go without affection for all this time because that is very damaging to their emotional well-being?
Suzanne Zeedyt has produced some very good work about this. Maslow's hierarchy of needs - unless emotional needs are met then any other development is impacted.
It's well documented that very young children denied normal affection from their main carers experience lifelong impact from that. Tbh you only need to read some other posts on MN to see many adults talking about how the lack of affection from parents/carers is still affecting them & longterm relationships.
I'm a childminder & I'm not ashamed to say that every single baby & child I've looked after is hugged & 'shock horror' given kisses when they are looking for affection. I'm in place of their parents for hours on end & this is part of what they would receive from them. I'm not kissing them on the lips or sticking my tongue down their throat for goodness sake!! If you can't trust your child's carers then rethink whether you should be sending them into childcare, your trust issues shouldn't be detrimental to your child.
Edited to add - yes of course all parents know their child will be show affection from me, it's part of the reason they are happy their child is safe & well looked after. They won't be left to cry for hours without comfort.

Yes. The Romanian orphanages came to my mind too.

When I'm holding babies, I find it very difficult to stop myself either stroking their hair or kissing them on the head. It's mostly because I forget they're not mine! Luckily, the parents haven't minded so far although I do try not to make a habit of it 😂.

I wouldn't have a problem if a nursery worker kissed my child on the head or temple personally (lips or anywhere else no, obviously), especially if it was an infrequent event. They've probably just zoned out and forgotten not to, especially if they have children or grandchildren themselves that they're in the habit of kissing.

Let's face it, babies and small toddlers are absolutely adorable to many of us - like human squishmallows that you just want to scoop up and love and cuddle 😂. Of course we should have proper boundaries in place and be teaching them about personal autonomy and personal space and similar concepts, but I've always supposed that tiny children were designed to be cute to trigger the nurture instinct in us so that we protect them and forgive them all the trouble they cause rather than leaving them out for the wolves. So it's their own fault really 😉. Well, maybe I wouldn't go that far but I'd certainly forgive the odd, well-meaning lapse in professional behaviour from a conscientious and affectionate nursery worker. It's certainly better than the ones (of whom there are a few, unfortunately) who can't really be bothered with the children and mostly ignore them as much as they can when nobody's looking.