Tony Blair says we need a national conversation about MH as its costing too much

[B0xes]

Tony Blair said recently on Jimmy's Jobs of the Future Podcast (clip available on youtube) that we need to have a national conversation about mental health. Why are we spending so much on it. Why are people self diagnosing. He believes people are being encouraged to view everyday challenges we all face as mental health issues.

Is he being unreasonable? In one sense, I'm inclined to agree to an extent, in the other, I believe he led the charge for so many of the social changes that have made us less resilient and many of these issues are due to individualism which led to atomisation and loneliness and being encouraged to see the market as the entity that fulfills our needs rather than strong families and robust social networks.

YABU - Blair can do one.

YANBU - He might have a point

There was a panorama where someone was given an ADHD diagnosis by 3 private clinics (and prescribed him drugs) but a leading NHS consultant psychiatrist concluded he didn't have ADHD

Exactly what I said upthread. Parents are trapping their children in a benefits trap from the age of 2/3.

DLA is very very lucrative if you’re on universal credit.

Top rate for both elements is £800 (PER child). Then an extra £500 PER child on your universal credit. You are also exempt from any benefit caps. Then the adult gets carers allowance which is circa £350 a month. That’s before any adult elements etc! And housing.

woman on here just yesterday saying she gets £5,500 in universal credit with a full breakdown.

Bloody lazy kids! Why aren’t they in work?!!! 😉

Another point that keeps being brought up is screen time, gaming, social media blah blah blah.

Has nobody noticed that nearly everything runs on technology and the Internet? Education is done on the Internet. Work is done on the Internet. Shopping - Internet. AI means more automation, leading to needing everyone to be wired in to oversee it or build more platforms etc etc. We're engineering our own obsolescence and that message, if not explicitly stated is becoming more apparent. The majority of humans are a waste of space unless they're feeding data into the system.

You can't tell people to opt out of it all for their mental health because there is or will be no alternative to being plugged in for basic living.

I think much of our mental health crisis stems from pure cognitive dissonance between the lives that would best suit us, and the lives we are forced to live. I think it's a subconscious and instinctive cry for help in so many cases as we lose connection, community and cohesion. And compassion is a loveable feast as its hijacked for financial and social kudos, it has to be demonstrative and applauded rather than just shown by quietly supporting each other.

Wonderful. So because your stepson presents differently to your son, you feel qualified to say that unless ADHD is picked up as a child then you don't have ADHD.

You are probably an expert in your son, but you're not an expert in ADHD and clearly the psychiatrist who assessed your step son disagrees with you and your partner.

It's actually incredibly common in inattentive ADHD for those who have an interest in academics to give 100% into their studies and reach burnout by adulthood. It's a myth that you can't have ADHD if you got good grades or went to university.

It's also very common to have other comorbidities, like autism and one diagnosis can lead to another, but again having undiagnosed comorbidities can contribute to burnout which then leaves you unable to work and be of capitalistic value to society.

You sound incredibly judgemental of your stepson and I feel sorry for him.

Also if he didn't have ADHD, the medication would definitely do something. It's a stimulant. It's a popular study drug because it causes intense hyperfocuses and bouts of energy when people take it and don't need it so if that medication is doing nothing for him he probably just needs a medication review as there are alternatives but might also be other barriers to him reaching his full potential with these drugs, like autism or depression or indeed... burnout.

You’ve said there are few people with genuine mental health conditions. The statistics do not show this is true. For those of us who work with people with mental health conditions, we laugh at your assertion.

I think they’re pretending to be a mental health professional, who, of course has tonnes of time at 3pm on a weekday…

oh wait, aren’t they snowed under?

Where are these therapists? People are leaving the NHS in droves.
And therapy does not work for all MH conditions. You can't talk your way out of a manic episode if you are bipolar.
Therapy only works if your MH issues are caused by something you can talk about. Sometimes, it is a chemical imbalance.

But yes, there should be more money put into treating MH issues in general. But this thread seems to be going the way of blaming people with MH for "not trying hard enough".

Nah

What would be the point of inaccurately self diagnosing MH issues, when there is not even adequate support available via NHS for those with serious, diagnosed conditions?

As previous posters have said, thing like the housing situation in England are contributing massively to MH issues. Safe, secure housing is a basic human need (pretty low level on Maslow's Hierarchy) and fewer people have this now than in past 50 years.

And then there is climate change...how are we supposed to be resilient when we can see ourselves and our children heading towards the precipice of uninhabitable, extinction level climate change and governments are doing fuck all to save us.

Again piss off.
You do realise you are one major life event away from disability, one illness away from your life being turned on its head, one hideous accident or attack away from not being able to go out on your own?
Not that I care what you think but my son has lived with a life limiting health condition plus asd/adhd/ptsd/anxiety and depression for his whole life. He has fought against it through endless surgeries and endless pain, through an education system that tries to fit everyone into square boxes and he has won. He has plans for his life and how he plans to help other people.
It’s attitudes like yours that make peoples like my sons lives even harder than it needs to be.

😂😂😂😂 Have you ever heard of shift work? What are you doing online at 3:50 pm on a Tuesday?

Most people are not under the care of any mental health services. They simply self-diagnose and carry on as if they genuinely do have whatever condition they claim.

Why are you getting worked up about underfunded mental health services?

Those who genuinely need those services will be placed under their care. Like any other overworked and under funded section of the health service.

If meds don’t do anything then your stepson definitely does have ADHD. (I take a few supplements that help The meds I use as a background medication)

If taking amphetamines has no real effect on him then might I suggest you think about if you took amphetamines would you think they might have an affect on you as a NT

You do realise people with ADHD have a different shaped brains. In effect our brain doesn’t have the ability to give ourselves little “rewards” of dopamine to get through the days tasks. It isn’t that we lack the ability to do something but that we lack the dopamine “reward” NT people get from doing a task.

Maybe your stepson was masking for years. It is exhausting trying to live your life so you don’t stick out. You copy what others do to make sure no one finds out your secret

Suddenly when faced with 40-50 years of doing the same thing over and over he just collapsed and threw in the towel

If you can understand that GCSE’s, A levels and university are at the most 3 years. Work is for decades

He might have been able to keep going because it was only for 2 or 3 years but for work he needs to look at it as not doing just one “career” but look at several areas that take his fancy and look at jobs in an area that people with ADHD thrive.

DD (also diagnosed with ADHD) works loosely in hospitality management as well as having at least 3 other jobs and a business.
She was laughing because at a big event a couple of weeks ago. All the management team (6 managers) were all diagnosed with ADHD and were all on the same meds.

Wouldn’t you like to know 🕵️‍♀️

and some parents have to reduce their working hours, still don't qualify for UC and loose 20k and more in earning per annum as they cannot work full time due to caring needs of the DC.... having disabled children has had some pretty devastating financial implications for my family. There is nothing 'lucrative' if you lose the your career and a huge part of your income.

Just under 7 million people in the uk receive disability benefits. The uk population is just over 68 million people so 1 in 10 of us are getting disability benefits.
https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-9602/ link just so people know where this data comes from.

Does it sound sustainable to people for this to continue rising?

Gosh some common sense at last

No. A lot of people with genuine and diagnosed MH conditions are also denied care, because funding for MH has been cut to the bone.

I know a lady who had very obvious psychosis. Is verbally abusive to the people who lives with her, destroys property, is delusional. Yet, when anyone calls the crisis team, they are told that this lady has to approach her GP herself. She wont, because she is psychotic.

Don't be under any illusion that the MH service helps people with genuine issues. They don't.

Have you seen the waiting list for diagnosis for adhd

It could be 8 years or you could live in an area where they have closed the list so people have no other option but to self diagnose

I think we need to stop talking about it so much; it us causing a mass hysteria-like effect.

If I believed everything on the internet I'd be self diagnosing as ADHD for sure. Then you see a doctor, then you get meds, and finally you're dragged into the world of racing to the bottom: anxiety for all.

Most people's issues would be solved if they stopped using their phones for six hours a day.

Well it's relative isn't it. 1000 patients for one doctor would be overwhelming.

20,000 patients for 100 doctors is still a lot.

A million patients for 20,000 doctors would be catastrophic underfunding.

But a million people needing genuine mental health treatment, as opposed to self-diagnosed anxiety for example, is a tiny percentage of the population.

As I said, most people don't have genuine mental health issues and most people aren't under the care of mental health professionals.

I’m going to respectfully disagree with you, because ADHD is a lifelong condition. Psychiatrists aren’t even allowed to diagnose unless there’s evidence of symptoms in childhood. If the record of those symptoms is coming only from the person who wants a diagnosis, the psychiatrist cannot possibly know whether the person is telling the truth. Yes, you only have my word for it, but there was no evidence of ADHD as a child, and therefore he should not have a diagnosis. There’s no need for you to feel sorry for my stepson, he’s doing well for himself living on PIP and universal credit, and is very happy to be doing so. He’s definitely not burnt out…

One of whom is my DH who is 75 in March. You do realise that those numbers will include those over state pension age if they started claiming PIP before state pension age.

8 years where I live. I read about one trust who closed the list for ASD assessment as it got to 14 years.