Tony Blair says we need a national conversation about MH as its costing too much

[B0xes]

Tony Blair said recently on Jimmy's Jobs of the Future Podcast (clip available on youtube) that we need to have a national conversation about mental health. Why are we spending so much on it. Why are people self diagnosing. He believes people are being encouraged to view everyday challenges we all face as mental health issues.

Is he being unreasonable? In one sense, I'm inclined to agree to an extent, in the other, I believe he led the charge for so many of the social changes that have made us less resilient and many of these issues are due to individualism which led to atomisation and loneliness and being encouraged to see the market as the entity that fulfills our needs rather than strong families and robust social networks.

YABU - Blair can do one.

YANBU - He might have a point

Who says that and which world are they living in? Narnia? King Elon's Mars?

MH services have been cut back for years. The amount of hospital beds keep vanishing. There is not even a ward for female MH patients where I live anymore.
If you go to your GP and say you are suicidal, you get sent away with a prescription and some print outs. There is no real help out there anymore.

It seems silly to complain people can't work due to poor mental health, yet at the same time offer no help.

Figs

I think TB is about 5yrs too late with his hot take, covid really has had a huge impact on large sections of society that were just clinging on with their fingertips and without huge investment into MH services the impact will last far into a future where TB no longer exists.

So back to the good old days of pretending MH issues don't exist then.

Yes, but we live in a country where the economy revolves around the ‘service industries’. Therapists need clients; the economy needs therapists, and so on and so on.

Nearly every person commenting on this forum has a child with autism or a husband with ADHD. You don’t honestly believe that, do you? The internet is a very powerful tool, and the therapy industry, much like the human rights industry, has clearly been very successful in utilising it to promote an agenda - i.e. to persuade the gullible masses that they (or their kids) need therapy or medication. The amazing thing is that it’s worked so well. But I suppose 20 years of drip, drip, drip will do that.

Ive heard of the off label use of risperdol (strong antipsychotic) to treat aggressive behaviour/meltdowns in some autistic children in America.

I do realise that, and I’m sorry you’ve had a difficult time of it with your children. Neurodiversity is just that though - a difference in thinking. I don’t think for one second that you can change how people think. But you do have to learn how to not let those thoughts affect you as much, and that certainly is possible.
I don’t deny that some people do have such poor mental health that this is impossible for them, and those people need help and support. But there are far too many people using this as a crutch or an excuse for poor behaviour, because we have made that possible for them, and that’s the bit that needs to be addressed.

Because "anxiety" gets you out of doing loads of stuff that you can't be arsed to do. Like work for a living.

A lot of anti-depressants and SSRI's can help with the symptoms and side-effects of living with autism.

Well surely the fact that 5/6 people who receive PIP are out of work is the data for this claim? If, on the other hand more people in work than out of work apply for PIP then, given that of those who receive PIP 5/6 don't work, this would suggest that the majority of people in work are likely to have their PIP claim turned down. Therefore suggesting that if your disability is severe you are less likely to be able to work. Or are you suggesting that everyone gives up work the minute their PIP claim is successful?

I still don't feel 90% or 89% of working age adults not needing pip sounds out of kilter with reality. I mean we have deaf, blind, cerebal palsy, down syndrome, rhetts syndrome, missing limbs, clearly visible on an x ray back issues, heart problems, kidney problems, cancer. That's before we get near developmental disorders like asd and adhd and then the mental health disorders.

As I say, we all have different views on whether we should support people with physical and mental conditions without means testing, or above the level of universal credit but I'm not personally aghast at there being 10% of people eligible in the current set up.

It makes sense that more PIP claimants are out of work than in it. Employers might say they don't discriminate against disabled people, but they do.

Well, you can't just click your fingers and expect someone else to prop your life either.

You say "MH" in the office and colleagues are expected to step in and pick up the slack, you expect all sorts of exemptions because it's too dangerous to call bullshit. Or worst, tax payer can fund your benefits because "your anxiety" prevents you from working.

How other societies manage I wonder? it's very UK specific, there is no other developed country so deep into this (not even talking about developing world)

Why are we less resilient?
What's caused this change? What can we do to rectify it before more people fall into a nervous and debilitating adulthood?

It is something at school? Do we not reward confidence and resilience there?

In 2022 there 201,000 people aged 16 -24 on long term sick leave in UK, 331000 aged 25 - 34, 542000 aged 35-49 and 1320000 aged 50-64. The 16-24 figure is lower as many young people will still be in education. These figures have all increased again in recent years.

The focus has to be on getting YOUNG people off sick leave and into work as they potentially have a long working life agead of them.

I notice Denmark is in the top ten "happiest" countries in the world. Don't they also have the highest rates of anti depressant prescriptions? Maybe that's why they're so happy, I'm joking obviously. It wasn't long ago Bhutan was the world's happiest country

Agreed with @User8646382

and this will be a cruel comment but I feel ADHD/Autism could almost replace the vegan joke (how can you tell if someone's a vegan) - I appreciate it clarifies they may struggle with some types of communication but it's usually completely irrelevant.
I'm seeing more and more friends leave work due to poor mental health - no issue with this but I wonder if volunteering or at least some reason to leave the house would be good. I don't think (and this is in the case of depression) giving up all commitments helps in the long term.

my mental health would be improved by never hearing from that posturing war criminal ever again.

Studies have shown the mental health benefits to work peak at 8hrs, a week.

You don’t need a diagnosis for antidepressants? Nor CBT. Adults need to be honest with themselves about why they’re seeking diagnosis’…

Some countries manage by locking people up in institutions for the rest of their lives, or by chaining people with MH issues to trees, or locking them in cages in the garden to "keep them safe".

There are people in rural China or Africa who live their entire lives chained to trees or to benches in "hospitals" because they don't have access to medication or any other kind of support.

In plenty of other places, people just end up on the streets and on drugs. Or dead.

I think the issue also comes to the fact unless you earn over £36,000 (I think?) you don’t contribute anything financially in the uk. We are fucked…

A lot of kids with a school phobia or emotional based school avoidance do very well in a further education setting, outside school in other social settings, and do very well in the workplace.

It really is just school which is the problem. And for many, it's just secondary school which is the problem.

DD2 aged 12 could do many things that a lot of adults would have nightmares about. Like turning up to compete in a track and field event she had never ever tried before. Receiving a brief bit of coaching, competing with dozens of peers and parents watching, then winning it. She has always made friends easily and is extremely likeable.

Secondary school was always a challenge for her from day one and she could never attend for long without being thoroughly burned out and then spending days in bed sleeping and sleeping. I wanted to take her out of school long before we actually did but she was so determined to keep trying. She really wanted to just go to school as all her friends did. School supported us with one hand while repeatedly threatening fines and court action with the other.

It is very complex and certainly not just being a bit nervous one day about fluffing your lines. Which is something which would be water off a duck's back to DD2.

I never said you needed a diagnosis for medication. The question was what medication can help with autism.

I also never said you needed a diagnosis for CBT. I said there are other types of therapy that aren't accessible unless you have a diagnosis, mainly via autism charities but some are available on the NHS too.

I also never asked for a diagnosis nor am I "seeking one". After 20+ years of repeated mental breakdowns and mental health problems (all while holding down a job) I found a doctor who actually looked at my entire history as well as how I presented and realised there was something else going on that I needed support.

He's the one who referred me and got me on medication which has been used to help people with autism and related mental health difficulties.

Glad to know judgement is still alive and well though