To think our lives are over and we will be judged (disability)

[Plopandflop]

Names changed

I have epilepsy and narcolepsy. I managed to work till about 3 years ago but it all got so bad I had to leave re illness. I managed to do a small part time craft business but I still get ESA as it’s classed as permitted work as I am in the support group. This is all I can do without literally floping. My parents both thing I should give it up completely as I don’t really managed to do much else. I am 44

my husband is a teacher and has always brought in and ok wage and we cope

after struggling for over a year with pain, weakness and memory and having to go part time he has been diagnosed with progressive MS. It’s just a matter of time before work goes completely as he is really struggling now. He is 49

that’s it isn’t it. A life on benefits and a lifetime of being judged. Everyone I see a post on here about sickness benefits or a post on Facebook or the paper I want to throw up. I know some people will say “but we meant those who really can work but don’t but let’s face it we are all thrown in the same category as a burden to the tax payer.

we have a dd who is 12 and I worry for her so much

just feel like life is over.

I read the latest thread and ranted to my partner as you're right. There is this awful shaming and judgement going on. Oh it's appalling and clearly from people who've never truly experienced disability in all it's frustrating, heartbreaking, lonely, messy reality. Who take health for granted. And then - knowing this - people in authority take advantage of a herd mentality to attack the weakest. But are we the weakest? Physically, perhaps, but not mentally. Think of what we cope with daily. The appalling attitude towards disability has galvanised me to advocate even harder for our rights. I'm not sad, I'm angry. And I want change.

To pretend that it isn't happening with PIP and it is running at a 0% fraud rate is quite frankly ridiculous

If you think we have no idea of the level of fraud, how do you know that there is a significant amount? If you think it is impossible to prove which claims are fraudulent what will be achieved by reform?

Yes I know the official statistics but my point is that it is notoriously difficult to prove that a PIP claim is fraudulent so you will never ever be able to understand the amount of fraud that is actually going on.

It isn't like other benefits where you can use hard evidence such as bank statements, rental agreements etc to prove or disprove someone's entitlement. How do you definitively prove that a PIP claim is fraudulent? If someone says that they have a condition and it is severely impacting their life and their claim is accepted then it would take an astronomical amount of resource of intrusion into someone's life to definitively prove that they are less impacted by their condition than they claim. Realistically the amount of surveillance needed on each claimant to check would be unaffordable and inhumane.

It is therefore really misleading to take the stats and suggest they're accurate. We have no idea! Nobody has ever done the work required to really get to the bottom of this and it would need people to act against their own interests and to voluntarily disclose any fraudulent claims which they would be very unlikely to do.

Have you ever claimed PIP?

I don't know of course but I think that there may well be a significant level of fraud and it will certainly be above 0%. The fact we don't have a realistic figure is incredibly worrying and suggests that nobody actually has begun to understand that scale of the problem.

The amount spent on PIP and the astronomical increase in claims over recent years means that any fraud will place an additional strain on a system that is already unaffordable. Reform is essential. I believe Reeves is looking into it at the moment because the impact of not reducing spending will be catastrophic for the economy and therefore all of us. We cannot just keep having an unchecked PIP system costing evermore and open to unknown levels of abuse.

I assisted a relative in claiming PIP.

So you haven't claimed yourself. I thought not.

I definitely had enough involvement in the process to understand what I'm talking about if that's what you're trying to suggest.

So you are just assuming that there are fraudulent claims but have no idea. If you think that it is impossible to tell whether people are claiming fraudulently why do you think reforms will reduce the proportion of fraudulent claims?

One of my lovely neighbours was diagnosed with MS when she was 40, and recently passed away in her early 70s. Not one of the neighbours (and there are some huge gossips amongst them) has ever had a bad word to say about her, her husband (who had to quit work to care for her eventually), or her kids who pitched in with her care as much as they were able). Nobody had anything but sympathy and admiration for them and how they handled themselves. So, I don't think it's inevitable you will be judged harshly, no.

Ah @Plopandflop, that's so shit.

Yes you will be judged, but only by sanctimonious cunts. I agree with PPs about hiding the Benefit Bashing threads and your DH going to his union. Strength and peace to both of you.

@Bumpitybumper simply stated that fraudulent claims if PIP almost certainly don't stand at 0% like another poster suggested

Yes, of course. The DWP (who say there is neglible 0% fraud in PIP) are lying, people with disabilities are lying. But you are telling the truth. You know that there is a term for people who deny evidenced facts in favour of their own interpretation of the world. In some cases, if it gets bad enough, you can claim PIP.

You have clealry never applied for PIP or been through an assessment. CArry on denying reality though, and you never know your luck....

I am merely pointing out that the 0% statistic that is constantly wheeled out on MN and other places is nowhere near as reliable as people love to suggest. I personally do believe it is probably significantly above 0% but it would be almost impossible to prove either way. It seems mad though to assume that because we can't prove fraud easily that none will be happening when the incentive is clear and there is a hell of a lot of anecdotal evidence if MN alone.

Also reform isn't just about weeding out fraudulent claims but looking at the benefit as a whole and whether it is affordable in the current economic climate and with so many applicants. Rooting out completely fraudulent claims should of course be a priority, even those that are basically rooted in truth but have been exaggerated as so many claimants are encouraged to do this for fear of not having their claim accepted at all. It is just a very broken system and doesn't work for anyone at the moment.

I doubt Labour will embark on a serious reform of PIP in the short term. The DLA to PIP roll out hasn't even been fully completed yet.

And did you then lie? As you say everyone else is?

It isn't like other benefits where you can use hard evidence such as bank statements, rental agreements etc to prove or disprove someone's entitlement. How do you definitively prove that a PIP claim is fraudulent?

So doctors, consultants and other health care professionals are not qualified to provide evidence that is dependable? I am sure they will all be gald to hear that their years and decades of experience are less reliable that a bank statement or a rental agreement.

People's attitudes to those on benefits are a disgrace. That judgement says more about their character that it does yours though, OP.

Anti-benefit rhetoric is rooted in classism and ableism, and misinformation is spread constantly via right wing media.

Deleted so I don’t derail the thread.

Exactly 💯 I've found strength i didn't know that I had, to deal with the most horrendous health problems that my body has thrown at me (imagine dealing with involuntary movements of your tongue and mouth, or eyes, or feeling like your whole brain is vibrating 😱😳😫), awful, utterly unimaginable things which most people would find a nightmare 😢 and probably very hard to deal with, letalone live with for years.

I've wanted change for years too - change to be heard, change to make doctors believe that drugs and medications can cause permanent harm, change so they will do no harm, and if they do, they will admit it and not gaslight you like 4 neurologists did to me.

Change isn't that easy to implement but it is not something I'm giving up on either. I just wish we could change some people's minds about how hard it is living with chronic conditions and disability, and how we really do need support both financially and emotionally.

The Tories put out the idea of only giving people on UC the extra sickness element if they were also in receipt of PIP, so it makes sense that more people are applying. They are facing about £400 cut in benefits per month.
I have read nothing that suggests Labour are not planning to do the same.

I saw that horrible, evil benefit bashing thread the other day, I even commented.
I'm 31, I have about ten GCSEs ( I can't even remember exactly) 3 a levels, health and social care, socialology and psychology.
I worked from the moment I left sixth form up until 2020.
My mental health deteriorated into a million pieces.
I tried to kill myself twice. Been in ICU twice in the space of 3 years for 2 months at a time now my physical health is ruined.
But I'm seen as a lazy piece of scum who can't be arsed to work.
I was in a senior health care role.
It's not that I don't want to work - it's that I can't work.
I've had to have most of my thigh / groin removed due to an infection in ICU and I've had to work hard on myself to get better to work toward working and getting back out there!!!
I hate judgemental people who haven't been in others positions!

You say that reform "isn't just about weeding out fraudulent claims" but if you say it is impossible to tell whether claims are fraudulent then reform would actually have nothing to do with weeding out fraudulent claims. You actually just want to cut payments to sick and disabled people regardless of whether they need them and you are going on about fraud is nothing more attempt to justify this.

I'm so sorry OP I just want to say I hear you
I have CP and was medically retired from the Civil service at 27( not long enough for a pension, a small lump sum)
Ok my disability is obvious, but I still get people judging me for how I spend my PIP( I pay a dog Walker for my gorgeous dog)
It's like I don't deserve a quality of life but until someone walks a mile in your shoes( wish I bloody could) they are ignorant twats you need to ignore.
To reassure you, I have 3 sons, who reassure me their childhood was happy and " normal"
Love to you and yours

I know exactly how you feel.

We've been though it.

The threads/tweets/news /tv programs dont help.

But ignore them.

The safety net is there for a reason just as is the NHS or state education.

It is no morally different from using any other state service.