To think our lives are over and we will be judged (disability)

[Plopandflop]

Names changed

I have epilepsy and narcolepsy. I managed to work till about 3 years ago but it all got so bad I had to leave re illness. I managed to do a small part time craft business but I still get ESA as it’s classed as permitted work as I am in the support group. This is all I can do without literally floping. My parents both thing I should give it up completely as I don’t really managed to do much else. I am 44

my husband is a teacher and has always brought in and ok wage and we cope

after struggling for over a year with pain, weakness and memory and having to go part time he has been diagnosed with progressive MS. It’s just a matter of time before work goes completely as he is really struggling now. He is 49

that’s it isn’t it. A life on benefits and a lifetime of being judged. Everyone I see a post on here about sickness benefits or a post on Facebook or the paper I want to throw up. I know some people will say “but we meant those who really can work but don’t but let’s face it we are all thrown in the same category as a burden to the tax payer.

we have a dd who is 12 and I worry for her so much

just feel like life is over.

Bless you, OP. I really want to give you a huge hug. I have had a neurological involuntary movement disorder called tardive dyskinesia for the past decade, that was caused by some prescribed off label antipsychotic after a head injury and post concussion syndrome 😢😫 I'd literally give absolutely anything to have my health back, including all the money in the world.

Living with my movement disorder has been utterly awful and literally a nightmare at times, and unfortunately I'm not eligible for any PIP or other benefits apart from child benefits for my 3 DC.

My DH works full time from home and I've just started part time back WFH after being a SAHM to my two youngest DC, which quite honestly was the hardest thing to do while being unwell, but I felt very relieved I didn't need to work and would be supported by my extremely kind and generous parents. My self esteem was (and still is) somewhat in tatters after my head injury/movement disorder, so if anyone had been unkind about me not working, it would have been the straw that broke the camel's back.😢😫

Please ignore those awful unkind people who are absolutely disgusting and criticising you in any way - you are doing all you can, and didn't choose the hand you've been dealt. It's true, as PP have said, that benefits are for people like you and your DH. Sending you huge hugs ❤️✨️❤️

Remember that the teaching pension on the grounds of ill health is calculated on projected earnings to 67. It's not a pension 'pot' you put money into like a private pension.

OP has already said her DH left his teaching job and is doing supply. Unless he has a contract with a school/local authority he can’t take ill health retirement.

Well obviously not right now! But there could be and should be if we had more switched on people in charge and a better system to help those who genuinely need it and weed out those who don’t.

The system how it is, is not even efficient enough to work out who needs it, let alone who does not. A huge amount of money is wasted on tribunals, were the claimant ends up getting awarded anyway.
The rate of fraud for PIP is so low, it is 0%.
Money wont be saved by going after that miniscule amount. It will be saved by paying people the proper benefit to start with.

Yeah I don’t think PIP alone is a problem more the system as a whole. No issue with anyone in need receiving benefits at all, my only concern is that there are some situations in the UK where welfare pays more than work, and this needs looked at as it is obviously wrong. It’s a bigger issue than the welfare state though as obviously insisting employers pay a fair living wage would solve the problem without cutting anyone’s benefit money. I wouldn’t take seriously any Council, Government, etc percentages though. My own experience working for the local authority tells me that a fair amount of their data is just outright lies.

Disabilities aside, the areas where people get more in benefits than workers, is due to the massive rents where they live.

For a while I was on sickness benefits. Everyone knew, small community where EVERYONE over the age of 18 was in employment/ training except a me and 3 others.
AND No - I NEVER felt judged, don’t believe I ever was, only ever met with compassion and kindness and being treated as ‘normal’ at a time when I felt anything but. And this was at a time when mental health was seen almost as a failing by some.
So take heart and know people will surprise you 💐

Very well said 👏👏👏

This thread is so sad - there’s an enormous difference between not liking the benefits culture in this country (I’m very left wing and even I think it’s awful that children are being shown that life on benefits is an option you can just choose and we’re enabling this when we know it’s awful for people’s MH and self esteem) and judging someone who can’t work. That’s the whole point, and they should be much more generous for people who have found themselves in your circumstances which sound so very difficult. Anyone worth anything at all won’t judge you, so if they do, sod them and their nasty opinions! I hope life is kinder to you this year 😊❤️

Thanks everyone I hope this won’t get deleted as I have copied my own words but I have just put this on the lastest benefit bashing thread

”i stared a thread earlier where I was really upset about being judged for mine and my husbands disability. After having so many lovely comments and support I have decided to take the following tack-
from now on I will see anyone saying or writing anything bashing disability benefits will take it as the one perk of my disability that I am pissing off such horrid judgemental assholes. It has been proven time and time again that people claiming PIP fraudulently is less then 1%.
I know now why these kind of people are not going after tax avoidance or mps fliddling expenses or governments wasting money left right and centre. It because they enjoy kicking people when they are down. They know we are a much easier target. Cowardly Bullies

It might also be a good idea to stop reading threads on mumsnet about the subject, people say things on this forum that they would never say in real life and they can be incredibly nasty, I often get wound up by things that are said on here and they don’t even specifically relate to me.

MN can be a very toxic place

I know I have just had my last say and I am done. I will never open a benefits bashing thread again

You did say what craft you do OP?

This post is very misleading.

We actually have no idea about the level of fraud associated with PIP as it can be almost impossible to prove that someone's claim is fraudulent. It is infinitely easier for example to prove that someone has fraudulently claimed Housing Benefit or Pension Credit as there is usually a paper trail and solid evidence that the DWP can access. Proving that someone is less impacted by their health conditions than they claim is extremely hard. This is especially true when there is so much information online about how to game the system and claim the maximum possible award. Claimants are encouraged to always focus on their worst days and to minimise the good. How can we even begin to understand the level of fraud associated with the PIP unless claimants are willing to admit that they have misled the DWP and therefore leave themselves open to legal action? Who on earth would do this?

I'm not saying that it's all down to fraud as the PIP system is broken. Too many people are eligible at the moment and the numbers are set to increase rapidly over the next few years. It is frankly completely unaffordable for a country that has so much debt and an enormous tax burden! People will become suspicious and resentful of such a system and ultimately it is becoming unworkable. We need reform and to accept that fewer people will receive PIP type payments.

Oh FFS. Another one who can't read the room.

@Plopandflop I hope you are feeling a bit better today.

It is so easy to fraudulently claim PIP. That's why 57% of new claims under normal rules are refused.

The fact that 57% of claims are refused doesn't prove anything about fraud. They could be genuine claims not meeting the criteria. It isn't fraudulent to apply for something you aren't entitled to if your application is honest. It is also totally possible that some of the 43% of claims that are accepted are fraudulent. It comes down to how claims are substantiated and what potential there is in the system to mislead the assessors. The nature of PIP means that it is a system that is relatively easy to manipulate compared to some of the other systems. It is just the nature of the beast where you are relying on personal testimonies and evidence from doctors that are often unable to run definitive tests and also largely relying on patient testimony. I'm not saying this is true for everyone but realistically it is literally impossible for professionals to spend enough time with each claimant and witness enough of their lives to guarantee that everything their patient is telling them is completely true.

Sorry OP, please don't read these comments and think they're about your case. They aren't! I just can't stand it when people merrily insist that the system is fantastic, has 0%!!! fraud and nobody is abusing it! There are of course absolutely lots of genuine claimants and you sound like one of them. Nobody begrudges supporting you and you getting what you need but unfortunately the system is broken, ripe for abuse and people are angry about that and misdirecting this rage at genuine claimants. Ultimately it does nobody any favours and it's why we need drastic reform!

Of course a minority abuse the system, as with all financial systems. But like it or not, the recorded PIP fraud rate is less than half a percent, hence it is recorded by DWP as zero.

It takes a certain way of thinking to come on to this thread and bang on about PIP fraud.

Right. Over and out from me. I have broken my own rule.

You know what? I will happily switch all of my best days for all of your worst ones. I know nothing about you, but I can pretty much guarantee that if that were possible I would be able to walk at least a few miles every day instead of 50 ft at best. I would be pain free most days. I would get a nights sleep without waking up in pain. I could elaborate further, but I won't, because you clearly have absolutely no clue about what it is like living with a disability. How dare you, with absolutely not a shred of evidence, suggest that people with disabiulities are gaiming the system? The fact is that getting PIP is a gruelling process of providing detailed medical evidence with so-called independant assessments which are in no way unbaised - and not towards the claimant.

The reason why "too many people are eligible" is not because the PIP system is broken. It is because the health system that should be treating and supporting people is broken. It is because the employment system is broken so that people are thrown on the scrap heap as soon as disability is mentioned. It is because society is broken because it continues to act in discriminatory ways and to demonise those who are most vulnerable, and to treat people with disabilities as being of little or no value. And PIP system is broken because people like you continue to assume that people with disabilities are mostly frauds (except for the ones that you patronisingly deem "worthy").

The idiots who judge you are not worth your time and effort.

Fortunately many people have emotional intelligence and realise that disability can happen to anyone at any time. You may be pleasantly surprised at how supportive some people can be.

I think your DH will be able to access the ill health pension when he needs to retire. Even if he has only been paying in for three years so far it will hopefully be few more before retirement and if he gets the top tier he will get what he would have got if retiring at normal age.

Absolutely this. I've had the most unlikely people look sympathetically at me when I've said about my health problems and chronic dyskinesia (movement disorder), and most people are usually very kind. Ignore the idiots who have no empathy or idea just what it is like to live a life with a broken body that you never predicted. Until these things happen to them, they will be ok with being ignorant.

Literally the best thing I have ever read on MN. Thank you!!!!! I am disabled too, a retired nurse and feel exactly the same. I have apparently gone from valued angel to scrounging scum simply by becoming disabled with the added irony that my disability was largely caused by work!
Your words have made me cry. I feel ridiculously proud of you as someone I have never met.

You know nothing about me. How can you suggest you would swap your best days for my worst days? You have no idea what my life is like.

There is a massive difference between suggesting that some people are defrauding a system to suggesting that all or even most people that claim PIP are fraudulent. I was suggesting the former and simply stated that fraudulent claims if PIP almost certainly don't stand at 0% like another poster suggested. I also said the rules need to be revised as it is becoming unaffordable. I am certainly not revolutionary in thinking this and you will see all major political parties will end up with some policies around this.

This is what I despise! There is no space to have a rational, sensible discussion because posters take all posts that are critical of the PIP system as a criticism of them personally. If I said the housing benefit system was open to abuse and in need of reform would you assume that I was claiming that all HB claims are fraudulent and that people that claim the benefit are all somehow lesser? Of course you wouldn't as that would be plainly ridiculous and would essentially mean that nobody can ever criticise any state benefit system without being branded a terrible person that hates all benefit claimants.

The PIP system is unique in the way that it assesses people's needs. It is heavily dependent of personally testimony, especially for mental health conditions. Does it mean that everyone with a mental health conditions is lying? Absolutely not, but humans are humans and the one thing you can guarantee is that some unscrupulous people will game any system for their advantage. The easier the system is to manipulate the more it will be targeted at the expense of legitimate (or worthy) claimants. It's human nature and there has never been a society where this kind of thing has not happened. To pretend that it isn't happening with PIP and it is running at a 0% fraud rate is quite frankly ridiculous.