To feel so fed up that the only way to get a good education seems to be privately?

[Greensha]

I’m uk based. I live in a reasonably nice area but the schools are rubbish. We’ve looked further afield and they’re all pretty similar. I don’t know if my expectations are off but the classes are huge, like 30 kids in one room (I thought 25 was the max!). The buildings scruffy. One had a lovely lunch room and nice outside space but the rest of the school was falling down. There’s absolutely no way we can afford private and the one local to us is worlds apart to these state schools. I am trying to remind myself that a lot of that is superficial, the teaching is the same in both sectors as the teachers are the same and I know my dc will leave school with a proper and ‘real’ understanding of life. I can’t help but feel my kids are at a disadvantage overall though and it upsets me. Why should some kids get small classes, loads of sport opportunities and nice clean and tidy environments when others don’t. Doesn’t seem right or fair.

@Pottedpalm anecdotally also, but my friends with kids at private have all the same challenges of adolescence as my kids in state: friendships, cliques, bullying, hiding intellect (yes, even in highly competitive academic schools), alcohol, drugs, early sex, social media. These things are universal. Access to money appears to have made things like coke more accessible.

normal life issues cannot be avoided by going private, they are ubiquitous.

@MyPearlCrow

I'm not a teacher at all! I'm not stupid nor naieve. Of course I'm aware that many people face poverty, abuse etc.

I was referring to Op specifically. She herself says she lives in a nice area. That speaks volumes. But The schools are not that great. She then compared these schools to private.

So what do you, and all other posters, consider her options are here, short term and long term?

Why does anyone post on mn? For a variety of reasons. If someone is asking about a specific issue, many threads have posters suggesting solutions.

Yes I said below, some people can't move. Many/most can. And even if she doesn't move, What are all the other things she could consider? Endless.

If you are that driven, and you plan it out for years, with supportive parents, and a decent / reasonable level of intelligence, there's ways to get decent results, go to uni, go to a top RG uni, get a very competitive apprenticeship.

Our schools are good here. Admittedly. Many children go to good unis. Ds1 had met many other students at uni, and other unis, who come from very deprived families, who against the odds, got into top unis. It's possible.

If op wants her dc to succeed. There's (almost) nothing to stop her making that happen.

I'm not saying these opportunities are open to all. If you don't have the intellect, capability, or anything else needed to make that happen, not all can invest in your child. I'm not talking about all the population.

But MN'ers are normally invested. They care. Op presumably does.

You could argue conversely that in many private schools teachers have a degree in the subject they are teaching whereas in many state schools even with teaching qualifications teachers are teaching subjects they don't have a degree in and often teaching subjects they really shouldn't be.

@Oblomov25 sorry - have no idea why I thought you were a teacher when you aren’t.

I agree that the op, in being interested in education, articulate and in some ways angry on the issue, gives her children an immediate advantage. But for a family that cant afford private, as for the OP, there are myriad financial and practical issues that may stand in the way of her getting her child a ‘good’ school place. To suggest otherwise is at best naive.

Is it really accurate you saying schools in the south are better than those in the north, or just your experience/impression of where you were in the north?

Two pupils at my DS's private secondary were expelled for dealing coke to their classmates on a residential trip. He went to the local sixth form college for A levels and the drug culture just wasn't there, some excess drinking was the worst he came across. Told me some lurid tales about the drug taking amongst his friends who stayed in the private school. He stopped seeing them because of it. The last straw was when he attended a party thrown by a former classmate in their huge mansion and he was threatened with a knife by one of them.

There's a huge drug problem at a lot of private schools because they have the money.

Private schools get discussed a lot on this site. Reality is only 7% of children go to private schools. You can't seriously believe only 7% of children are successful 🙂

Make them do their homework and make them practice reading every day and they will easily be very smart children. Trust me daily reading practice is sooooo much more important than what school they go to (at primary level ) but by secondary they will be put in sets so if you've been making them read every day they'll probably be in the higher sets with other kids focused on their school work

Naive?
No, I don't think so. Admittedly we don't know much about op, as she hasn't yet told us.

But let's just speculate. Go with me on this?

Does op herself work? at all , part time? The main breadwinner? does her husband work?

Have they ever moved house? Can they again? As part of their next 5 year plan?

Have they ever moved into this area? Presumably they have because they didn't grow up here so there's nothing stopping them from moving again. How old are our kids? Are they primary, as other posters said things change over the years and a school can get better or can actually get worse.

Loads of Mumsnetters change jobs or take a promotion or study more go to open university and change careers, completely. there's nothing stopping op whatever job she does doing something else in the next five years, studying online getting something else, getting a higher paid job, moving to another area with better schools.

there's nothing stopping her (depending on her husband and where they live) moving to a a different county, applying grammar or better schools.

or even if the school is semi reasonable She could invest in her child. She could do online learning. She could push them, encourage them, she don't even need to pay for a tutor if you have the time energy and expertise you could practically look it up and tutor your own child to make sure they got decent GCSEs.

Admittedly I'm teasing here. My dc didn't go to grammar, I didn't get tutors. but I'm just saying she doesn't even need to necessarily move to a better school.

as long as the schools around her are semi reasonable, a bright child with invested parents will thrive.

What's to stop her dc getting very good GCSE results , good A-level results and going to after university? absolutely nothing, or rather hopefully, not a lot.

Schools change. Catchments change. You can't plan on Secondary schools before a child is born.

And moving for Secondary isn't that easy either, having to uproot the children.

Of course we hold standards to account. That's a given. Good quality provision is a must. That why the inspection process exists (though there are many problems within this & teachers workload that I won't go into here). Education is a privilege when children in developing worlds don't have access to it. It is a right and we should all have access to it. Unfortunately we live in a very unfair world and we are lucky enough to be able to be able to go to school and have the opportunities to learn. We all want the best for our kids but I also think we also have to appreciate how lucky we are especially with things that are happening in the world right now.

Well yes. So? But we have to at least try, aim high? Else what's the alternative, do nothing and not bother at all? Come on!

Yes, I chose to live somewhere with good schools, generally, and yes they are stable, and haven't declined nor increased much. Not all have that I know.

We all have choices. (I chose to work part time for many years, now I do 4 days, and I am not a high earner, just so as you know! ). Op has choices over the next 18 years re her children.

Of course we hold standards to account. No one is disputing that. Good quality provision should be the bare minimum. I do think we are lucky though. You can pay for it or you can be on benefits but we all have a right to an education in the UK that other children in developing nations around the world aren't as lucky to have.

Exactly. We moved to an area that had one of the top secondary schools in our region, but over the past 3 years there has been a mass exodus of teaching staff and both formal ofsted as well as informal parent feedback is dire. We haven’t started secondary yet, so in theory could move again (at great expense) but how would I have any confidence that this would assure dc a good education?

and yes we can do all the stuff outside of school, but there’s no getting around the fact that the majority of their learning time happens inside the school.

Wasn’t this all getting fixed by the governments great plan to tax them? Don’t worry OP, it’ll all be fine in a year.

My dcs' school is scruffy and they had to finish early for Christmas because they hadn't had heating or hot water for weeks.
My dd is always complaining about the mouldy ceilings and stuff like that, my ds doesn't notice I don't think.

There are a lot of troubled kids and bad behaviour and disruption. In my dd's year it is overcrowded with nearly 40 kids in some classes.
There are a lot of kids doing really well though and doing amazing things so I think it all depends on what you put in and support from parents.

If I won the lottery I would send my dd to a private school though. She is very sporty and the private school near us has such superior facilities and coaching and links to professional clubs.
My ds I'm not sure about. I think he would be happier and do well staying at his school. He's on a really nice class and has good friends. It doesn't matter because it's just a dream anyway 😆

Why should some people drive a Fiat and some a Porsche?
Some people have more money than others, simple as that.
BUT I do agree that all children should have the right to a decent education in a safe and pleasant environment.
However, it isn't the case at the moment and sticking VAT on Private school fees won't change that.
All you can do if you don't have access to a good State school and can't afford Private is to support your child at home, with tutors if necessary.

Why should some kids get things others don't?

money buys privileges as with anything in life, don't be silly!

What opportunities? It’s a national curriculum? I think you have talked yourself into believing private is automatically better.

We have three private schools in my town. They are run down, with small outdoor space and overall not large schools. What does that mean? Sports are limited because of the number of kids and outdoor space. Classes are 15 max but are full of children who couldn’t get on in mainstream school and have learning difficulties, autism etc. This of course isn’t a problem but the classes cater for these children and I have many friends who feel their non ND children struggle in this environment.

Yes you have to find a great state school and we have one - new theatre, gym studio, Astro pitch, huge outdoor space, 100’s of clubs and teams and classes in GCSE’s are about 15. I know this isn’t everyone’s experience and for reference I have been to both state and private but I would never ever send my kids to private (and we can).

Please stop with the private is better when it isn’t always.

Kids at Private school do usually have been resources and a standard of teaching State schools don't but I don't see what additional oppportunities they have

Its accurate for the area I want to move to and the area I live in now. I can’t talk for entire regions.

I can only go on what I see and what my DS tells me. I know he isn't being bullied, and liking maths is not a 'crime' at his current school. He is happy and engaged.

I know that phones, smoking and vaping are not tolerated on site and involve confiscation/suspension/parents being called in. Drugs results in being expelled. Policies are adhered to.

Parents are mostly not rich. We have a lot of forces children, local farming families, there's only one trophy car.

I don't doubt there are issues in other schools.

Yes, the cohort is make or break - heavy skew towards one sex or one type of student, be that SEN or sporty or academic or whatever, plus parent attitudes, can totally change a child’s experience of school and there is no real way to do much about that. Pure luck.

That’s a remarkably good student teacher ratio for GCSE. What area of the country are you in, county wise?

All my DC went to state grammars. All have received a great education.

Most of the country doesn't have grammars though and as they are selective then they filter out the worst behaviour/parents not valuing education etc.