To feel so fed up that the only way to get a good education seems to be privately?

[Greensha]

I’m uk based. I live in a reasonably nice area but the schools are rubbish. We’ve looked further afield and they’re all pretty similar. I don’t know if my expectations are off but the classes are huge, like 30 kids in one room (I thought 25 was the max!). The buildings scruffy. One had a lovely lunch room and nice outside space but the rest of the school was falling down. There’s absolutely no way we can afford private and the one local to us is worlds apart to these state schools. I am trying to remind myself that a lot of that is superficial, the teaching is the same in both sectors as the teachers are the same and I know my dc will leave school with a proper and ‘real’ understanding of life. I can’t help but feel my kids are at a disadvantage overall though and it upsets me. Why should some kids get small classes, loads of sport opportunities and nice clean and tidy environments when others don’t. Doesn’t seem right or fair.

You’d be surprised…

I wouldn't be surprised about them being selective but I'm not suggesting that there aren't behaviour issues etc in grammars, just that there can be fewer (or maybe less extreme?). Happy to be corrected on that.

I have two at state and one at private. They both have ther advantages and disadvantages.

We have two decent state schools here which are a literal lottery to get in, not done on catchment or entrance exam. The rest are woeful. None of mine got in on the random allocation at the good schools, also not fair but also life. At the end of the day you say you can't afford private so I wouldn't waste too much time thinking about it.

I had a good education at a state school in an inner city area. I work alongside people who were privately educated, including public schools. And by that I mean doing the same job. I think parental involvement and investment has a huge part to play.

The grammar local to wear I grew up had two students who were caught in an armed robbery of a post office (I was in second year at uni - the gossip made it quickly to us).
In my girls’ grammar there was a physically violent student that was allowed to get away with all manner of things.
Drugs were rife from Year 9 upwards.
When I was there as a teen, I myself was a self-harmer. I carried a knife around school in my bag (I regret now but only ever intended harm to myself).
Parental support is also not a given in supposedly ‘nice’ schools

In short, look at schools yourself, don’t get seduced by fancy facilities and think about what the best thing is for your individual child.

To say the only way to get a good education is privately is rather an ignorant and snobby comment to make, as well as it being utterly untrue. There are good and bad private and state schools and I know many poor teachers who have moved in to Private Education because they couldn't hack state. There are plenty of state school teachers doing an incredible job and they are under a tremendous amount of scrutiny. There are fantastic state schools out there getting brilliant results and I firmly believe that when parents are supportive and engaged, then they are the biggest precursor to success for the children. My children are doing brilliantly in state schools and achieving incredibly well and, ironically, they will have a better chance of getting into certain universities who are targeting high achieving state school children to redress the disparity of places going to privately educated students from prestigious private schools.
Bright children who want to do well, will do well regardless, as long as the school is a good school and with the pressure put on schools by ofsted- most schools are good or better. Incidentally, the school my older children go to is badly in need of knocking down and rebuilding. It has zero impact on their achievement. They have clear and consistent policies and this means teaching is excellent and procedures are clear and adhered to. Individual schools need to be judged on merit and there is no blanket rules about which are better. It's utterly untrue. Teaching is the key factor in school and it is other factors that benefit in private like peers, resources and engaged parents. Any child exposed to those things will succeed regardless of their setting. There are badly behaved kids in all settings and just because they are there does not mean they will impact all individuals.
What I will say is that state schools are under tremendous pressure and something does need to change drastically in that regard- especially with regard to recruitment and retention. But the assertion that private is better or the only way to get a good education is utterly false and insulting to all the schools and staff in state doing an incredible job.

Totally believe in grammar school as a way of education but you will probably find you are vilified by Mnetters almost as much as those who believe in private education.

The hilarious thing is that if you go over to the Higher Education page all those people are then chasing "prestigious" unis and dismissing ex polys as options.

Grammars may have better behaviour due to social and academic selection but ime they are crappy at managing the behaviour issues they do have.

Plus clever students misbehave cunningly!

Like all schools, we do are best with what is reported to us.

Argh! Our!!!!!
Brain fried from mock marking - preparing for inevitable mocking

Another one who would not put my child into private school even if I was offered a million pounds to do so.

I have 7 friends (all girls) who went to private, same sex schools. All of them have had severe mental health issues over the years. Bulimia, anorexia, toxic abusive relationships etc.

I think it's completely and totally unnecessary.

Not to mention the huge drug culture, and bullying because 'your mummy and daddy don't earn as much as us.'

The last straw was when he attended a party thrown by a former classmate in their huge mansion and he was threatened with a knife by one of them.

@OnGoldenPond Yes, knife crime is exclusively carried out by privately educated people. All those knife attacks in London - yep, everyone ex public school.

So 7 friends out of 600 000 kids who go to indy schools have issues? You have extrapolated their experience across every 1 of the near 3000 indy schools in the UK?

I developed anorexia + drug taking at my state grammar!

Because drug taking and bullying just doesn't happen in state schools?

Ok, I’m going with you, and I agree with most of it. I believe a bright child with interested parents will likely thrive. But I still think that there are many obstacles for most people when it comes to getting into a good state school. I commend your positivity, but I’m afraid I don’t share it!

I believe the point is more that it DOES happen in private. These issues are common among teens whatever their social background.

My DD15 is in Private, reason is SEN. She has ADHD and the SEN support in the state system near me is utterly useless.

She is in small classes of 12 which really works for her.

I would have gone state if it worked for her.

Point is, you pick the right school for your child if you can, the school itself doesn't matter.

My stepdaughter went to a well known private girls school - most of them were boarders from abroad and no cultural integration. It isn't always positive.
My son went to a private school and it was excellent in all aspects. He didn't board.
I used to teach at a state girls school which was a bit scruffy but we got the third highest exam results in the county.
My step son taught at another very well known girls private school and he didn't even have any teaching qualifications. You can't make generalisations.

'
So 7 friends out of 600 000 kids who go to indy schools have issues? You have extrapolated their experience across every 1 of the near 3000 indy schools in the UK?

I developed anorexia + drug taking at my state grammar!'

@twistyizzy

My friendship circle consists of 10 women. 7 out of 10 went to private school. Those 7 women have a lot more mentally going on than us that haven't been to private school. It's a very open conversation between us as a group. I'm not saying state school pupils don't get Anorexia.. obviously 🙄 but all 7 of them will vehemently not send their children to private school. They all say private school damaged them far too much. Their words, not mine.

A clever child will do well anywhere.
The quality of teaching in state schools is often much stronger than in private schools, and if a school is rated outstanding, with keen, involved parents, I’d choose that , shabby buildings aren’t important.
It’s the parents and teachers that make a school good.

My step son taught at another very well known girls private school and he didn't even have any teaching qualifications. You can't make generalisations.

@itsstillmehere does your step son have a degree?

It’s rather alarming that people can teach in private schools without qualifications- Have heard this before.

I could teach mathematics in a private school despite having only GCSE maths myself.

Scary thought.

They'll do well anywhere. But they'll do better around other smart children.

If they get the top available grades, surely they can’t “ Do better”?