To feel so fed up that the only way to get a good education seems to be privately?

[Greensha]

I’m uk based. I live in a reasonably nice area but the schools are rubbish. We’ve looked further afield and they’re all pretty similar. I don’t know if my expectations are off but the classes are huge, like 30 kids in one room (I thought 25 was the max!). The buildings scruffy. One had a lovely lunch room and nice outside space but the rest of the school was falling down. There’s absolutely no way we can afford private and the one local to us is worlds apart to these state schools. I am trying to remind myself that a lot of that is superficial, the teaching is the same in both sectors as the teachers are the same and I know my dc will leave school with a proper and ‘real’ understanding of life. I can’t help but feel my kids are at a disadvantage overall though and it upsets me. Why should some kids get small classes, loads of sport opportunities and nice clean and tidy environments when others don’t. Doesn’t seem right or fair.

My eldest is now 21 and 14 years ago we had to move her from state to private primary school. She had a tough year group - fighting & high SEN needs. She also was undiagnosed autistic at the time and struggled with the classroom noise. She fell through the cracks. After multiple incidents with an another pupil we had to move her. We found a nurturing private school- it wasn’t academically the best but for her provided a calm place. For secondary she switched back to State but we did have to pay for tutors.

My second daughter went to the same state primary - completely different experience. Had a wonderful year group, parents invested and the school had a much better SEN support for the children that needed it. Still a tired old building!

It’s more than just the buildings or the teachers - my second daughter the parent group seemed more invested - 3 of us had children the same ages and we all said what a difference this year group was. They all starting their GCSE years (year 10) and they still a really lovely group. A very different experience from my eldest secondary experience.

You don’t if it’s an academy

I understand "workings" aren't considered which from recollection when I learnt maths many years ago were important?

My DD9 is in state primary school and flourishing in a class of 30, is the school perfect no, but she enjoys learning and is making great progress and has a lovely friendship group. My DSC - all went to state primary and secondary, one is at drama school doing very well, one graduated last year with degree in marine biology and is off exploring the world and the other got a first in his masters and is working in London for civil service. They are not an exception in their friendship groups & the kids they grew up with who went to same or similar schools are having similar experiences and opportunities. I think kindly you need to get a grip.

If you can’t afford private you have no choice. Unless you are willing to move I see no point in your OP other than a pointless rant which, wil be of no help to your DC.

Don’t judge a school by its exterior.

My DC, 4 STEM A levels taken in 2023, state from secondary (previously lived abroad) got the grades needed to get into a medical degree a mix of A stars and A’s. Most of his friends got all A stars.

We live up North in a nice large well connected village but the local towns are deprived. However, the teaching staff, the pastoral care, the general vibe of the school/6th form college community was one of respect, approachability and helping the students achieve their potential. Not all statistics or outward appearance of buildings show the true picture of how a school truly is.

It has never been essential to be qualified to teach at an English school.

The govt do bleat on about it but at most the school just needs to show no qualified suitable applicants applied. Which is distressingly easy to do a lot of the time.

Explanation for non teachers: "non qualified" means "no PGCE or equivalent on the job teaching qualification." It does NOT mean "no degrees, no other qualifications, no relevant teaching experience etc".

Most teachers at independent schools do have PGCE these days. There tend to be more with doctorates and Oxbridge quals too as it looks good on a staff list.

@twistyizzy @RhaenysRocks

You insist most people can't move? Ever?

Most? Some? Few? Yes there are some people that can't move. Most can.

We are all responsible for our choices. Choosing to have children in the first place. Choosing to live where you live? I could Link a thread, where someone has said they can't move, and others have made suggestions for things that slowly could be put in place over the next year, 3 years, 5 years, plus. So that someone cold change certain things, and thus move.

I put to you that the number of people who literally have zero choice in schools, zero choice in job, zero choice in where to live, is not that high. Mostly it would be in certain circumstances, eg health of parent, or eg health or sn of a child, that is restrictive.

But that doesn't apply to the majority.

Op just get tutors, even better than private

So everyone in the UK moves house in order to be in catchment for good schools? You see the issue ie parts of UK would have no-one living there and then schools in the areas with no-one living there would be redundant.

I put it to you that many people don't have the financial resources, or knowledge, or level of education to be able to move.

I am a state school teacher and parent and couldn't agree more with this.

So naive -most people can’t afford to move to somewhere with good schools. It’s a middle class privilege.

My last comment was aimed at @Oblomov25

It's not always been the case of 30 in a class. I went to state primary and there was 45 or 48 of us in the class. We had an absolutely brilliant wiry little Scotsman in our last year at junior school and 45 of us passed the 11+. There were plenty of Grammar schools in that area in 1967

What was different then was the discipline, there is no way we would have misbehaved in his class, we were all a little bit scared of him but he was absolutely adored by every child in the school. They broke the mould with him RIP Mr Kerr

Only middle classes ever move house? Because of their privilege ?

I'm sure the annual house sales, people moving house who rent from landlords, is not limited to exclude any class, working class.

@Hoppingabout

Workings out were absolutely essential when DD1 was at school. She was off ill but needed to do her maths homework, her dad showed her how he would have approached the homework. For once she'd got her homework correct and the teacher asked her how she did it. She explained and he tore her to shreds as she'd done it the way her dad was taught not the way the teacher had taught.

Your child has access to free education. That is a privilege that other children around the world don't have. Of course they have access to a good education in a state school. They have access to a very good even excellent education in a state school. Look at the school's inspection reports (though not always a true measure I know) to get a feeling for the school. The most important thing is what do the other parents think of a school. Is it nurturing, inclusive, dedicated etc. I'm a primary school teacher. I have 30 in my class. The vast majority of our kids perform extremely well because we have caring and dedicated teachers but equally we have dedicated and caring parents who buy their kids books, read to them at night, take them on excursions etc. I'm a parent as well as a teacher and my children go into school (state) happy and come home happy. They are learning and thriving. I don't really understand this obsession with private schools in England (I'm in Northern Ireland). Seems mad to pay for something that's free unless your child was really struggling and you found serious fault with their state education.

YANBU However you could argue its not fair that some people have luxury homes, access to private medicine etc. Only around 7% of the population are privately educated .My own DS failed the 11 plus ,went to a secondary modern and did very well .(In spite of me crying at the time!) Your LO will be similar I expect .DS friend whose DF is a millionaire ,disliked his private school and joined my DS at SM. Both have done well and my own DS went to a RG uni!

It's not a "privilege " though. We all pay for it, some people.twice. So we don't have to be particularly grateful and we can hold standards to account.

@Oblomov25 you can’t genuinely believe that ‘most’ people have the same opportunities to move to a good school catchment as each other? If you do, then you really are naive. Good schools attract more (able, interested, comparatively privileged) parents, house and rental prices then increase, poorer families are priced out. It’s really that simple.

And that’s not taking into account the fact that families dealing with poverty, abuse, addiction etc are unlikely to have ‘getting my DC into a good school’ at the top of their priority list. It’s survival - paying the bills, avoiding the next beating, feeding the family.

I’m assuming you teach in private (sorry if you’ve said this already) as a teacher in state education would be bitterly aware of this from their cohorts.

OP nowhere in your initial post do you mention anything that is likely to have an impact on your dcs education. It's all about the appearance of the school. Incredibly superficial.

What about the quality of teaching and learning? The curriculum? The pastoral care? The ethos?

30 is a standard class size and has been for decades.

Education (and very good education) is not just for personal benefit though. An educated society benefits everyone in it, hence the state provide education funded by taxpayers.

It has been vastly underfunded recently - one of the impacts is high legal immigration, as people here don't have the right education and skills to do all the jobs available.

Funny that those who don't like paying enough tax for decent public services also aren't keen on immigration.

@Alleycat50

this is a chat forum where people can start conversations about anything and what you call pointless rants are the very bread and butter of the site

I enjoy a pointless rant myself

@SharpOpalNewt

The key to education is being able to read.. Phonics has a cult like hold on the UK and unfortunately forcing dc to learn to read via phonics is locking dc out of education.

There should be many strategies in place that can be used and adopted where necessary.

@Pottedpalm yes private schools have longer days but they also have an extra four weeks holidays per year than state so any extra time gained is lost then. We also found that when the Maths teacher went off sick at dc private school, they had no spare staff to replace him. Bullying was rife and drug taking was far worse than at the state, maybe as the children had access to more money. Just our experience of course.