To feel so fed up that the only way to get a good education seems to be privately?

[Greensha]

I’m uk based. I live in a reasonably nice area but the schools are rubbish. We’ve looked further afield and they’re all pretty similar. I don’t know if my expectations are off but the classes are huge, like 30 kids in one room (I thought 25 was the max!). The buildings scruffy. One had a lovely lunch room and nice outside space but the rest of the school was falling down. There’s absolutely no way we can afford private and the one local to us is worlds apart to these state schools. I am trying to remind myself that a lot of that is superficial, the teaching is the same in both sectors as the teachers are the same and I know my dc will leave school with a proper and ‘real’ understanding of life. I can’t help but feel my kids are at a disadvantage overall though and it upsets me. Why should some kids get small classes, loads of sport opportunities and nice clean and tidy environments when others don’t. Doesn’t seem right or fair.

I wouldn’t choose private for the academics. I would,and did, choose it for the environment. Not the buildings or the facilities, but how much easier it is to notice and support every child when there are enough staff and resources to go round.

I had a rough time at a not-great comp as an academic and eccentric kid. The battered self-esteem from years of unaddressed bullying went with me into my adult life. I did very well academically.

These threads are always full of posters tripping over themselves to talk about their children’s terribly diverse friendship groups and how they can communicate with everyone and truly empathise with the experiences of those beneath the poverty line because they go to a state school. Something about the way it’s always phrased makes me really uncomfortable. Like they’re on an outreach project.

I have a child at private school. I talk to him about stuff, ask him what he thinks and offer him different viewpoints to consider. I question his opinions and encourage him to question ours and those of his peers. I try and give him access to a wide range of experiences and listen to what he thinks about them before I share what I think. I’m trying to teach him to be someone who thinks, and listens to what other people think. In my opinion that’s much more likely to make him into a decent, empathetic adult who isn’t a dick to people who grew up in a different environment.

Assuming your child is going to be socially aware and a force for good solely because they went to school with kids from the rough bit of town is bold.

Yes I agree about it being variable. We've been to a two state, one private and one international school and toured a fair few others due to moves and there seems to be no standard, with the state mayne ita thw head or the local authority or the area, I am not sure but it does seem to vary a lot from school to school and your experience is different again. And with private we have seen a huge variation in facilities, support staff and teaching. I think best to tour a school and find what you think is best for the particular child, jf you have an option of course. Some areas are limited in choice too sadly. We also have some tiny state primarys near by with tiny classes and they mix year groups as pupil numbers are so low and some huge onea with 4 classes per year.

The primary options are more straightforward, thank goodness. All are decent, some outstanding. Some have to deal (and do a good job) with a range of social issues as we live in a socially mixed area with pockets of deprivation. Others are very uniform in terms of their intake. There are also a couple of prep schools but none are the "leafy, extensive grounds, swimming pool" type due to the space constraints of being in an urban area.

I don't think private education is an outright guarantee of quality but it is a way to ensure your kid won't end up at the sort of place where pupils being in knives etc. That said, I found that most private schools push you towards uni and I personally regret going - I'm much happier working in the construction sector and resent the huge student debt I acquired for nothing. And trades generally command a higher salary than graduate jobs unless you're very senior management or in a niche job.

Don’t be seduced by fancy facilities! Education is a lot more than that. My school is scruffy. And we are one of the top performing schools in the country.
State school classes have never been a maximum of 25.

There isn’t a lack of bullying though. Bullying goes on everywhere you get a group of people.
One of the main differences for a successful private/Independent is if they find someone is a problem it is easier to ‘ask them to leave’.
My university boyfriend was bullied horribly at a very successful boarding school in Devon.

We get a number of students joining us from private each year (lots of local privates don’t have sixth form). They are no nicer/more intelligent than the students who’ve always been with us.

They are richer though.

There will be drugs issues in all schools at some point (or rather students who take drugs - dealing/taking may not happen in school). I would be more concerned about schools claiming not to have an issue. Or an issue with bullying.
What’s more important is what they do about it?

Parental support, help and gentle encouragement. Read their books. Help with homework. Read ahead. If the school has an attitude if focussing on disruptive children to the detriment of children trying to learn - tackle vigorously. Become a Governor ot PTA member. Encourage after school clubs or uniformed organisation membership.
Do not feel state is second best. Do not stand for poor standards. Do not stand for mealy mouthed excuses.

Lots of bashing private schools here, which isn't surprising but does have me 🙄. Taking all emotive response and generic 'facts' out of it ("teachers are happier in state", "I know someone who knows someone who's privately educated child isn't doing as well as their cousins state educated child" etc etc), private schools have:

Smaller classes
Better facilities
More opportunity to explore interests/passions

And look at the stats; private education yields better results. That is a fact.

Not everyone can afford it, but for the ones who can and are bashing it- bizarre imo.

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Please DON'T say this. It just sets up a whole new line of "yeah but they only select the best, they play the system etc". It is not a fact that ALL private schools outperform ALL state schools. Not all are selective for a start. There are many excellent reasons to choose private if you can but it isn't a cast iron guarantee of anything at all. It's the right fit for some kids for lots of different reasons. If you look at league tables and take out the privates that are fiercely selective, you'll see a lot of states in there. Many of them are grammars which of course are just as unavailable as private for most in this country bit not all. The biggest factor ultimately is demographic and catchment. In our university town the best results are from the comp near where all the academic staff live. Funny that....

YANBU. I used to be such a great supporter of state education but schools now are way too big with huge class sizes and they fail far too many children. I am so glad we are nearly out the other side and not starting again now.

People don't have time to take on the entire education system. It nearly killed me battling the system for one DD. We did all of those things and more and were still made to feel like feckless, terrible parents when we had one child who didn't fit the mould.

Where I live the secondary schools are dire.
Chances of being beaten up about 50/50 on any given day.

How the hell is a parent who works full time supposed to fit all of that in?!

My DC all state educated and have all excelled academically. Their school wasn’t perfect but it’s an outstanding Ofsted. I rent in this area as I can’t afford to buy on a single salary in Surrey / South London border. In 18 months i’ll return to the north where I grew up and finally become a home owner. I’ve delayed this for many years as the schools are so much better here. There are many good state schools, but if you don’t want to move or have any inconvenience then you’re going to have to suck it up.

We did. Didn't help when we had one child who hated secondary school.

I send DD indy but I'm sorry I don't fully agree with you.
Selective schools, whether state or private, will always get better results than non-selective. There are highly selective state schools + indy schools and there are non-selective state + indy schools. At selective schools I doubt there is much difference in results, where the difference comes is most likely at non-selective because smaller class sizes in indy mean teachers can actually teach, rather than just managing behaviour.

Inequality is always frustrating when it slaps you round the chops.

we chose to state educate. Can afford private but disagree with elitist education. But we’re lucky our local schools are good - hand on heart I’m not sure we’d have made the same decision were they not.

we need more investment in state education, invest more in all kids but especially those who are in some way disadvantaged - educationally, sociology-economically, domestically. It’s an awful stat that a high percentage of prisoners have a low level of literacy/education. Even the most selfish people should see that this would save money in the long run on benefits, nhs costs etc.

I am hoping labour will do more in this respect. It shouldn’t be that only middle class bright kids with interested parents are guaranteed to succeed in state education.

Classes of 30 have been standard for many decades. And around here state schools have newer and less dilapidated buildings, whereas the private schools have better playing fields and sports in general. The standard of teaching is about equal, bullying and competence dealing with it is about equal, and social problems (gangs, knives) are worse at state schools.

I used to think people sent their children to private schools for better teaching and a better education, but I am seeing now that it really isn't about that. I'm not judging either because if I could afford it I would send my son to the school with the good sports provision and fewer knives.

I'm afraid you are hoping in vain if you are wanting Labour to improve education. Unions voting on whether or not to strike, they have pretty much abandoned the extra 6500 teachers pledge because they can't even meet the current recruitment target, let alone find an extra 6500, they aren't increasing the per pupil funding formula which is the only proper way of improving schools and in light of current economic situation budget cuts must surely be on the cards. There are rumblings in some teacher groups about the new Education Bill.
Labour have just scraped the Access to Latin programme in state schools, and was just recently announced that they are scrapping computer + language hubs.
This version of Labour is not the 90s Blair version of "Education, Education, Education".

@MyPearlCrow I agree but they shouldn't achieve it by attaching and trying to bring down the private sector but by being ambitious and bold in solutions for raising state standards. The tiny amount that may or may not be raised by the VAT is irrelevant. State needs a complete rethink, far smaller schools, or divided up into smaller, more manageable sections so kids are seen and known and heard. Massive investment in SEN, CAMHS, early intervention and acknowledgement that a lot of what goes wrong is happening at home. It's unpopular for a gov to tell people how to raise their kids but the disruption caused in some state schools but the behaviour and lack of respect from even v young kids is the root cause of many problems and won't be solved by just throwing money at schools. A more diverse and relevant curriculum...the science GCSE is appallingly content heavy, technical and unfit for most kids who have no inclination in that area. A qualification exists of applied science which relates much more to real world living but it's not a GCSE so rarely adopted. We need more of that to keep older kids engaged. But all this would mean seismic changes and cross party support because it can't be implemented in one parliament and that will never happen.

Main difference between Private and State...
State schools can't pick their pupils and families. Private can. So Private schools have a cohort of families who prioritise education through either resources and/or time. Which over all leads to a more supportive environment.

Thats before you start on the extra resources available in the school.

Its not necessarily an individual teacher being better, or children being smarter etc.. its just removing problems.

Many State schools do amazing jobs. Others do their best, but are fighting a losing battle. Others ate just going through the motions.

All schools are different. Forget the generalities and instead look at your DC. What do they need from a school? Then find a school that matches this.

Some state schools can pick their cohort eg selective + grammar schools.
Some are selective based on postcode + house prices.

Larger classes are definitely not better in terms of teaching! Which would you prefer 20 or 30 students to plan for, manage and teach, and mark for?
With thorough teaching and ongoing revision there is no need for extra after school classes. Most private schools have a longer day already.