To think the call back into the office is an example of the patriarchy very much alive and well?

[Yestttlo]

And anyone who thinks otherwise is either brainwashed by the patriarchy or isn’t a mother with a huge proportion of child related responsibility on her shoulders? (Or someone who is in a job where they can’t work from home so don’t want to support other women having the right to).

I have worked from home since covid. Been in the office eight times where it was necessary, for instance a company away day or face to face client meeting. I have a young dc and the call back to the office will damage my career progression due to time spent travelling which means I can’t be online longer and because I will be stretched to get household stuff done .. no I don’t mean I clean the toilets during work hours but that I can put a wash on first thing and know I can unload it at lunch, or get cooking done for the evening during my lunch break which means my evening is not chaotic and I can actually rest a little before starting in full force again the next day.

I will be fighting it to the very end. I will make my views clear. I strongly believe that forcing people into offices hugely disproportionately affects women. My work can be done anywhere. Forcing back into offices is a neon sign that the patriarchy is alive and well. Thoughts?

But why do you have the greater responsibility for household chores? Can your husband/partner not be responsible for putting a wash on or making dinner?

Totally disagree. WFH traps women into having to do it all. Unless both partners are wfh and splitting the jobs equally. But how many men talk about enjoying wfh because they can pop a wash on at lunchtime?

Everyone can do online shopping no one needs to shop in person in lunch hour
You or the kids dad can put washing on delay start and unload when you get home
But I agree some wfh flexibility is ideal for office work
A normal of 2 days wfh should be the norm

And yeh where are the men popping a wash on?

I'm more pissed off that it's been proven that WFH/hybrid working can and does work in many situations, making the differences between disabled and non-disabled staff far smaller - and now it's being swept away as though it never happened.

Opposite (sort of) here. I don’t WFH but husband does. Now husband WFH it means I can work longer hours and more days because he is at home to do more childcare even if it’s just being home to make sure daughter leaves on time for school. It’s given me much more freedom.

I agree if my OH went back in full time that effectively means I have to give up work, take a pay cut, go onto a zero hours contract and work most weekends and nights. We can’t survive on my wage and I would suffer greatly. Even though my job can’t be worked from home I support those that can and has made our household jobs and childcare more even.

@InkHeart2024 in my circumstances he is not able to work from home.

However the point remains that someone has to do more, it’s never 50/50, and that’s usually women due to breastfeeding, time off from maternity leave etc. The right to work from home is essential for women (and men if they are providing most care for children)

Dh does that now he wfh. He also gets it out of the machine and hangs it up normally too.
It's great.

YABU in a sense that its not an employers problem if you have children. You can fight against the patriarchy by getting your children's father to make sure things are more 50/50.

However, if you can WFH effectively and your doing so doesn't negatively impact your team - then i can't see why they have to change it. Saying that though, they're your employer and like any company directive, they have the right to do what they like and you have the right to choose to follow it or find another employer.

@Hufflemuff employers are the patriarchy. Wake up a bit.

I’m really struggling to see what the patriarchy has to do with it.

It’s pretty clear, despite what people declare, that long term productivity is better when there are office hours during a week. Measure it over time and include other metrics such as engagement, leavers etc. a good proportion of office hours gives better business performance, probably due to the social connections that you have in an office environment which offers many things - friendship, fun, and on the more business side, better creativity, knowledge sharing and problem solving.

In saying that, I don’t especially like enforced full fixed hour / day approaches, it’s good to give people some flexibility and responsibility

This workf fom home lark is a skivers charter. Yes some folk are conscientious but a lot aren't. Not before time employers are cracking down on it.

Absolutely 🦇💩.

A lot of people use WFH to skive or do other work (such as childcare) yet want their employer to pay for it.

Unless you joined a company and the role was specifically wfh I don’t see the issue.

I am now on a Hybrid contract (3/2) which works perfectly and I expect that’s what a lot do.

To refer to is as “patriarchy” is 🦇💩

Work is a social construct.
Working from the office is often a contractual obligation.
Communication, L&D, interpreting nuance is easier F2F.
The employer is not responsible for the employee's domestic arrangements or childcare.
The employee has agency over the length of their commute.
What about the financial and structural security of local communities: sandwich bars, coffee shops, use of buses/trains, etc. Those things may disappear.

Telling me to wake up and not addressing any of my points is just ignorant. Bad vibes.

Completely disagree. It's important for women to get out of the house and not be solely responsible for running the house, school runs, making dinner etc.

I work full-time, have children in primary school and I'm in the office 4 days a week. Company policy is 3 days min in the office and I choose to go in 4 days with 1 day wfh. It's a generic office job that could be done from anywhere.

I wish I could go back to an office. I hate WFH but my office was closed down permanently because it was already dilapidated to save costs. I feel so isolated and have become a bit of a drudge as, naturally, all of the cleaning/washing/cooking has fallen onto my plate because I possess a uterus.

I work in fintech and have a (male) colleague who has a debilitating spinal condition which severely affects his mobility.

He is an extraordinarily intelligent and gifted professional, but there is no way he could cope with a 'normal' commute or the expectation to sit at a desk 9-5.

Forcing him back into an office five days a week would mean that he would be forced to resign and find another job less suited to his talents or abilities, thereby my firm would lose out and ultimately nobody wins.

The whole thing seems like utter madness to me.

If women end up taking predominantly WFH roles, I genuinely think it will set us back enormously. It fosters the idea that we should have the "lesser" jobs, and take up the slack at home. Plus it makes us almost an invisible workforce. Beavering away at home, while the men do the jazz hands front line roles. Am all for smashing the patriarchy, but I don't fancy trying to do it while also unloading the dishwasher and knocking up a casserole in my lunch break.

@Hufflemuff your post was to say it’s not the employer’s problem if you have children. I responded to say employers are the patriarchy. The fact you’re so accepting of their apparent terms of the workforce which is outdated to a time when women didn’t need to be employed, really sums up what I mean in my OP.

So you’d fight it til losing your job? How long have you been there?

This

@Artesia 😂😂 fair point. But surely the fact remains that employers dictating this is the problem and women (or anyone with childcare responsibilities) should be able to choose.

Yes indeed. My ds is ND and his firm are going four days in the office so he'll have to look for another job.

And the government say they want more disabled people to work.