To send them home? (trigger warning grooming gangs)

[DarkAndConfusingTimes]

The Rape and Grooming scandal is blowing up on twitter/social media and the extent of the scandal is actually mind boggling. Apparently up to 250,000 girls may have been affected 😱

This initially shocked me but when I thought of it, although I’m based in a rural area I know of two girls who have been caught up in it - one of whom in my class at school was raped in a park aged around thirteen and another family friends daughter found naked in a room with a group of adult men at the age of 14 and was blamed for leading them all on. Those living in towns/cities must see so much more of this?!

I’ve also heard today that Pakistan is willing to take back criminals convicted in the Uk of these crimes (UK-Pakistan Prisoner treaty agreement) and has been for a number of years but we’re not sending them back. I know not all perpetrators are Pakistani and not all Pakistani men are capable of such evil (and I work with plenty of decent Pakistani men), but of those who are convicted and born there why on earth are they still here in the UK if we can remove them as a danger from our society and their home country is willing to take them?

In have two daughters and I’m honestly terrified for their future given this significant threat to young girls in this country. It seems like no one cares enough to rock the boat.

YABU - No they should remain here and we should deal with it
YANBU - They should be sent back

It’s not just girls that are being groomed, it’s young boys however services are actively minimising the numbers.

i sit on multiple meetings monthly regarding online grooming and child exploitation and none are recorded… what is recorded tho is when the children have then went onto commit crimes themselves (mostly online) and when the police arrest those children… those children are then added to the statics!!!

Even when parents have reported their children being a victim of grooming or SA to police/school/children social service.

For those on here whose children are being groomed or are a victim and have now become desensitised to sexually harmful behaviour. I’d recommend you get in touch/ ask for a referral to the Lucy Faithfully foundation.

So much is done to protect children from their perpetrators however little is done to protect children from the behaviours they have been victim to and the psychological harmful behaviours have on these vulnerable children.

https://www.lucyfaithfull.org.uk/

@DarkAndConfusingTimes

you do realise that this is far more complex than some brown skinned evil people raping white girls. If you think Nigel Farage, Kemi Badenoch, Elon Musk or Tommy Robinson care about these girls then you are very naive.

A lot of these girls were incredibly vulnerable and known to services and the conservatives have reduced services to the absolute bone because no one cares about poor girls who are usually a pain in the neck on the outskirts of society and they don't vote.

how many times have you seen something not quite right and not told anyone

The prosecutor from Rotherham is actually an interesting person to listen to about this issue and he's a Muslim.

I'm an immigrant (longtime resident in the UK) and would personally be fine with this, at least for over-18s and for those convicted of violent crimes or sex offences, as well as repeat offenders generally. I think the spectacle of a Government unable to deport serious violent criminals is terrible for immigrants actually - it just creates ill will for the rest of us.

100% agree, as a fellow immigrant who also doesn't commit violent crimes! It's a really low bar to clear, and I'd like people to be able to assume I've cleared it when they meet me.

They are fully native. What the “rest of the world” does is irrelevant (and this isn’t really true of the new world).

One of the basis of our legal system is equality before the law. Implementing a two tier system is an abandonment of our cultural values.

@OneAmberFinch and @UsernameMcUsername exactly. It's unfair to the majority of immigrants most of whom are law abiding citizens.

I'm assuming that they are making political capital from abuse.

If any of them cared one jot about poor girls in Northern towns being abused they would have said something or done something.

They are playing people and stirring up WW3

It was in the Times today that a rapist (not part of a grooming gang) can’t be deported because he’s bisexual and will face persecution in his home country.

WTAF? I do not give a fuck about the human rights of rapists. If you are LGB and that means you will face persecution in your home country, perhaps don’t rape innocent women in Britain.

it’s a fucking joke. And the lawyers defending and protecting this scum should be ashamed.

That's certainly not about one particular case. If any "foreign criminal" has a well-founded fear of persecution in the country to which he would be deported then he won't be deported. He's unlikely to be granted status as an asylum seeker, though, it's more probable he'll get a series of short-term periods of leave to remain in the UK.

This is such a legalistic technicality - "he won't get asylum but he'll still get to stay". Come on.

It does make a number of practical and legal differences.

foreign criminals should be deported. This should not be controversial. Nobody is forced to rape someone. This country is a joke.

Would it not make for more integration because nobody would misbehave? There are still Britons imprisoned for not having to licences btw - system is pretty two tier for women offenders.

I believe that sentences should be served in the country where the crime took place, with deportation and a ban on returning following as soon as they finish their sentence.

I don't think that people with an non-UK nationality should be deported for littering, but it should be dependent on the type of crime and/or the lenght of time served.

This is about protecting children, I realise that there are commentators online using it for race matters, and they don't care about the kids at all, but children were raped and abused, and the safeguarding of children needs to be centred. If an inquiry finds that the police and social services didn't do enough to protect these kids, then new proceduers can be put in place. I just don't understand why first the Tories, and now Labour, are refusing to carry out an inquiry.

It doesn't matter whether the abusers were white or brown, all abusers acting as part of these networks need to face lengthy sentences, and police and agencies need to be aware that these crimes happen, and actively work to protect these kids. It's a bonus that you can deport non-national criminals, home grown you're stuck with.

I'm an EU national, and if I committed a serious crime, I think it would be reasonable for the UK to deport me.

Who cares if he's in fear of persecution. Actions have consequences and he should have thought about those before he raped.

Is he waiting for a decision on asylum?

I am not responsible for the law, honest.

The UK has, however, been a signatory to the Refugee Convention since it was created in 1951, and under that it's not possible to return someone with a "well-founded fear of persecution" unless he is excluded from the Convention because of a "serious non-political crime".

Under Article 3 of the ECHR there is no exclusion; the UK cannot send someone to a country where there is a "real risk" of inhumane and degrading treatment.

In practical terms, too, it's going to be very difficult to send someone to (for example) Afghanistan.

I'm sorry, I don't know about this particular case.

The 1951 Refugee Convention is a product of a different world, and should be replaced with something that acknowledges the massively different patterns of migration that exist 70 years later.

Jailing someone until they can be deported (in the case of Afghanistan, etc) is also completely within our power.

It's nonsensical the way we completely disempower ourselves through all these bits of "international law" that will never be enforced. There is no way the US for example is going to set a precedent of going to war or imposing economic sanctions on an ally because they were too mean to rapist refugees. There just isn't. These are just words on paper and we increasingly live in a world where people see them as such.

I agree we’ll see strain around a convention that was created at a different time

All these political shifts we’re seeing are due to inability to deal with huge change in migration and those profiting from that

The US might be some sort of trigger for change

When did Mumsnet turn into the Daily Mail? I'd expect this sort of 'brown people are all evil rapists' there, but I thought Mumsnet was better than that. Obviously not.

I must have missed the post that said that, I’m sure you must have reported it though

"Send them home" about largely British people?

There only people mentioning skin colour are those who are shouting racism. It's not about skin colour. Read the thread again, carefully, paying attention to your reading comprehension. This is one reason why proper, sensible discussions can never be had.