To send them home? (trigger warning grooming gangs)

[DarkAndConfusingTimes]

The Rape and Grooming scandal is blowing up on twitter/social media and the extent of the scandal is actually mind boggling. Apparently up to 250,000 girls may have been affected 😱

This initially shocked me but when I thought of it, although I’m based in a rural area I know of two girls who have been caught up in it - one of whom in my class at school was raped in a park aged around thirteen and another family friends daughter found naked in a room with a group of adult men at the age of 14 and was blamed for leading them all on. Those living in towns/cities must see so much more of this?!

I’ve also heard today that Pakistan is willing to take back criminals convicted in the Uk of these crimes (UK-Pakistan Prisoner treaty agreement) and has been for a number of years but we’re not sending them back. I know not all perpetrators are Pakistani and not all Pakistani men are capable of such evil (and I work with plenty of decent Pakistani men), but of those who are convicted and born there why on earth are they still here in the UK if we can remove them as a danger from our society and their home country is willing to take them?

In have two daughters and I’m honestly terrified for their future given this significant threat to young girls in this country. It seems like no one cares enough to rock the boat.

YABU - No they should remain here and we should deal with it
YANBU - They should be sent back

Agree

The usual test of loyalty is which side one would support in cricket or football

A war seems rather extreme

Fair enough. I have relations whose version of doomsday prepping is a spiral of anxiety about their sons being conscripted into the next war, so I guess that would feed into my opinions somewhat.

Yes good idea, let’s delete a whole conversation because YOU have decided that it is racist. Will you be on hand to personally and single handedly moderate every thread on here seeing as you are the sole authority on the subject? After all, it is your views alone that we should all use as a yardstick with which to measure conversation against, right?

I get so sick of people trying to get things deleted that they don’t agree with. Read it or don’t. But don’t try and stop other people from discussing it.

Threads will only be deleted if they break Mumsnet's T&C not because PP disagree with their content

Not agreeing and not being racist aren't mutually exclusive - it's possible to do both

Hi @Errors I have read it and I’m interested in the topic. I’ve engaged with the thread a few times. But I think the language in places is incendiary and hyperbolic. It is a small number of posters. I think it’s inappropriate for mumsnet and it helps no one.

What aboutery? Surely the definition of whataboutery is never mind that the majority of child sex crimes are committed by white males, what about the 7% that is committed by Asians.

It’s not whataboutery it’s asking you to treat all child exploitation equally because to not do so looks racist.

You realise we have no idea the actual figures because Police and Social Workers have been refusing the help these girls? In Rotherham it was 1400 girls, the number all over the U.K. is probably huge,

So we have no idea but you know it was huge? Can you name those who are refusing to help?

Do you even know anything at all about this at all?! Maggie Oliver is an expert, runs charities, worked as a police officer for 20 years and has said numerous times they deliberately don’t record the race of the perpetrators as a way to cover up how big this scandal is. Do you need me to find interviews she’s done or can you not look into it yourself?

Why don’t you actually do the smallest research on this, whistle blowers have lost everything speaking out over this. Why don’t you watch this interview (14:00) where people who’ve worked in this field confirm it’s deliberately been covered up. Watch the entire thing.

By a considerable distance, yes. There are limitations - if someone has been convicted of a "particular serious crime" (over 2 years unless "no longer a danger") he won't get refugee status, and refugee status might be revoked if it already exists, but he will get a temporary humanitarian protection visa; he won't be deported or removed until the risk has ceased to exist. There are complications and associated legal considerations, but in broad terms, however serious a crime someone with a well-founded fear of persecution or risk of cruel or inhumane treatment can't be deported.

?

I think any criminals with any convictions above "littering" should be immediately removed.

If they're here as refugees, the fear of persecution back home should hopefully make them take extra care to not commit any serious crimes.

But posters are correct to say it's not that simple to just deport people, even when there is political will. You should try, obviously. But I think we should have a more pointed conversation about who we give visas to in the first place, because once someone is here they start accumulating links and ties that make it very hard to deport them later if required.

IF they are foreign nationals (i.e do not hold British citizenship) I think it’s right and proper that they serve their sentences and are then deported.

However I know that is overly simplistic and there maybe many contextual factors to consider.

Just above “littering”?

So non payment of TV license, a speeding offence, a caution for public intoxication, party drug use - all deportation?

How can we hope for integration where we have such an extreme two tier justice system?

I cannot imagine that it makes sense that a crime that would have a slap on the wrist for Britons would have a deportation for somebody born elsewhere.

89% of grooming happens by white men

That said the over focus on grooming committed by foreign passport holders when most of our groomers are white men is just…a little bizarre.

Obvious name change.

We will never know the true figures, not ever. As, for example, the Rochdale scandal that resulted in convictions of British-Pakistani males for crimes commited in 2008/9 only in the first operation. Further operations uncovered abuse that went back to 2002. Sara Rowbotham tried to raise the alert hundreds of time from 2003. Multiple operations have resulted in multiple convictions. However, there are 100s maybe 1000s of reports from that one town alone that didnt get to prosecution. 2 Victims were used for the 2015 operation that was taken to trial in 2023 that dated to 2002. I can tell you from first hand experince, from 2002, when i was 15, there were more than 2 girls. Everyone knows there were more than 2 girls. But the ones that get to court and convictions are few and far between. And its the minoirty of victims that report to police.

We will never know the true extent or numbers of girls involved.

As for the OP's question, British born citizens should be tried and punished here. Deportation of those not should be standard with any criminal conviction.

I think if someone who is not a British national commits a crime on British soil, deportation should be automatic.

White men?
or white British men?

Obviously we can’t send them anywhere but prison, but we aren’t talking about them. 😳

The irony is that the corrupt successive governments, corrupt councils and authorities refusal to deal with this issue is what actually puts race relations at risk. Is it right or fair on law abiding Pakistani immigrants that they would be seen with suspicion because governments have actively refused to deal with the vile people.

Such an odd question.

@Errors - good question. Don't know.

Deportation isn't execution. Being invited here is conditional on obeying our laws - in principle, all of them.

I'm an immigrant. I don't see it as two-tier justice to have one law for citizens and one law for foreigners. Even one law for birth citizens and another law for acquired citizens. This is considered entirely natural by most of the rest of the world.

For what it's worth, a more general point about immigration rather than specifically paper citizenships and deportation: the rest of the world also often doesn't treat descendants of immigrants who have maintained parallel societies that preserve their ethnic heritage as "fully native" either. Illustrative case: white South African Elon Musk.