Page 9 | DD no longer allowed to walk from school.

TheWonderhorse · 2025-01-10T14:42:25+00:00

DD is 9 and has been walking from school to a car park just off the grounds (not the official school car park but closer). She's been really wanting to walk home but we compromised at this for now and would work up to that gradually. I signed a consent form to permit them to release her. So this morning the school sent a letter out saying that they've had a rethink to all parents, and from Monday only Year 6 children are to be allowed to leave the classroom without a parent. DD is Year 4 but the oldest in her class, meaning we won't be allowed to start this again for 17 months. AIBU to ask the head to reconsider? I know they can't really refuse to let her out, but I don't want to be a dick. I just feel like DD is being held back for no good reason at all. We have this covered and didn't need the school to intervene. IABU, school know best. IANBU it's up to the parent to judge what's safe for the child.

NattyTurtle59 · 11/01/2025 00:18

Ineedpeaceandquiet · 10/01/2025 15:08

She is still a young child and there doesn't seem to be any real need/reason for her to walk alone 50ft to the car park.
Just wait till year 6 like everyone else does.

I was off to secondary school at 10, pretty sure I could have managed to walk 50ft alone anywhere the previous year!

I'm not in the UK but I live near two schools and see plenty of kids, younger than nine, walking and scootering to and from school. It's not up to schools to have a say in this.

Original poster

TheWonderhorse · 11/01/2025 00:24

janiejonstone · 10/01/2025 23:50

School governor here. I'd say the specifics of your child aren't relevant to the decision at all. My school allows year 6 children to leave school premises with written consent (renewed each term). That's not a decision about individual kids in lower years, it's a decision it's the best course of action to effectively safeguard those year groups as a whole. I'd be very surprised if a new 'secret' external safeguarding risk has been discovered, but more likely would have been sparked by concerns for the family circumstances of a specific child (or children).

For those saying the school can't refuse to release children, of course they can. Schools are in loco parentis until they hand kids over to their carers at the end of the day and have a broader legal duty to protect the welfare of those children even when they're not at school. If they choose to allow the kids out alone with parental consent then they can legally do that, but there's no obligation and the younger they allow it, the more risk that carries.

So what happens if the school refuse to release the child? Will they contact social services over an issue they've facilitated and allowed for the past three months? How can they say it's unsafe without admitting that they've been failing to safeguard the children?

The school have told the children in assembly today that it's for "safety reasons." What they mean is they don't trust their parents to decide what is safe for them.

OP posts:

TempestTost · 11/01/2025 00:31

helpfulperson · 10/01/2025 16:10

This is why so many children now suffer from anxiety. Because we are teaching them that the world is so dangerous that they can't even walk 50 ft unsupervised.

This.

This kind of bs is so damaging to our kids, all in the name of safety.

Not1Not2Butt3Holes · 11/01/2025 00:38

HellofromJohnCraven · 10/01/2025 18:27

Where I lived previously, all children went to middle school in year 5. Almost all walked. Many walked home from year 4 to prepare for the much longer walk from year 5.
We moved and youngest dd was at primary instead. She walked home from year 5.
Unless you live somewhere crime ridden I don't get it!

We have middle schools where we live. The one my daughter went to from year 5 was in the next village. So the children walked to the school bus stop then got on the bus to school. It's still the norm today.

janiejonstone · 11/01/2025 00:40

TheWonderhorse · 11/01/2025 00:24

So what happens if the school refuse to release the child? Will they contact social services over an issue they've facilitated and allowed for the past three months? How can they say it's unsafe without admitting that they've been failing to safeguard the children?

The school have told the children in assembly today that it's for "safety reasons." What they mean is they don't trust their parents to decide what is safe for them.

Show quote history

I'm not really sure what you mean. Schools have a legal obligation to safeguard their pupils. They aren't 'refusing' to release a child, they're following their legal duty to keep children on site until a carer arrives. Some schools make provision for parents to consent to children being allowed off site without them, and some don't. But that's a safeguarding decision that has to be made by the school.

It's nothing at all about not trusting you personally as a parent. While children are in the school's care, it's the school's legal responsibility. They can't have one rule for some parents and another rule for others. And in any year group there will absolutely be some children (possibly many children) who the school has concerns about.

TempestTost · 11/01/2025 00:50

Bushmillsbabe · 10/01/2025 18:03

Of all the answers this is the most logical.

You want her to develop independence, walking too school is no different to walking back, but there no need to make life harder for the school by arguing with them about 'rights', as I'm sure they are quite busy with other things, like teaching! Win-win.

Show quote history

The problem is that the school is seriously overstepping, and implementing policies that are ultimately damaging to kids. And if they are making such foolish assessments on this they likely are on other age appropriate activity and behaviour too.

That shouldn't be let to go on just to save parents trouble.

Original poster

TheWonderhorse · 11/01/2025 00:50

I mean that if I refused to collect DD from the classroom and insisted they release her, then what would they do? Contact SS to report me? For asking them to do something they've allowed her to do for 3 months?

It seems that if they are insisting it's not safe to release Year 4 and 5 kids now having been doing it for years, then they are accepting that they've been neglecting their legal responsibilities for all that time.

OP posts:

Original poster

TheWonderhorse · 11/01/2025 00:55

Oh and to those asking, I don't let her walk to school in the morning because I couldn't be around. I have older siblings in another school and they need to be taken there. We do that and then drop DD outside the gate on the way back.

OP posts:

TempestTost · 11/01/2025 01:00

Fuzzypinetree · 10/01/2025 19:02

It wasn't neglectful. I'd walk down to my mum's surgery to check in with her after dropping stuff off at home and then usually go off to play at the park or at a friend's house. It was completely normal in our tiny village.
The bus thing was in the last year before starting school. Again, very safe neighbourhood.

It's was similar to this:
"From Year 1, Japanese children go to and from school without parental supervision, usually joining a group of their peers on foot or public transport2.
Many of them, particularly those with working parents, also come home to an unsupervised household. The word for this is kagikko, meaning key child — not far from the English term latchkey kid. But Japanese students would commonly leave again, either to after-school care or elsewhere in the neighbourhood. “I remember in Year 5 or 6, we’d go around the catchment, about a two-kilometre radius, and I wouldn’t come home until it’s very dark,” recalls Yuko, who grew up in the Kobe countryside. “When I was in high school, I could go to the city by train and hang out with friends at a cafe or wherever.”
https://www.cela.org.au/publications/amplify!-blog/july-2022/what-old-enough!-teaches-child-development

Show quote history

It's wild the differernce between countries on this. It seems to be the English speaking places that are so fearful.

Try walking a child of even 7 to school in Germany, you will be told to stop by the teachers unless it is a very unusual situation!

I would be very interested to know what the difference between rates of anxiety is where kids have more independence.

janiejonstone · 11/01/2025 01:05

TheWonderhorse · 11/01/2025 00:50

I mean that if I refused to collect DD from the classroom and insisted they release her, then what would they do? Contact SS to report me? For asking them to do something they've allowed her to do for 3 months?

It seems that if they are insisting it's not safe to release Year 4 and 5 kids now having been doing it for years, then they are accepting that they've been neglecting their legal responsibilities for all that time.

No, they'll have reviewed the policy for the current cohort of kids as they'll need to do every year. That's a good thing - we all surely want our kids' primary schools to be making and reviewing decisions with their safeguarding responsibilities front of mind. Schools' statutory responsibilities also change and are reviewed annually by DfE.

Legally, if a child isn't collected at the end of the school day then the school has to comply with child protection procedures. Each school can set their own cut-off time for when that will kick in. At mine it's 7pm which is an hour after school club provision finishes. NSPCC sets out the legal process here learning.nspcc.org.uk/research-resources/schools/dropping-off-and-picking-up-before-and-after-school#:~:text=If%20nobody%20comes%20to%20collect,and%20contact%20children's%20social%20care

EMary12345 · 11/01/2025 01:10

Our school is KS2 can walk home alone with parental permission! I teach y5 and only 5 still have parents meet them! Some of our y5/6 children have a key and look after themselves after school!

TempestTost · 11/01/2025 01:11

janiejonstone · 11/01/2025 00:40

I'm not really sure what you mean. Schools have a legal obligation to safeguard their pupils. They aren't 'refusing' to release a child, they're following their legal duty to keep children on site until a carer arrives. Some schools make provision for parents to consent to children being allowed off site without them, and some don't. But that's a safeguarding decision that has to be made by the school.

It's nothing at all about not trusting you personally as a parent. While children are in the school's care, it's the school's legal responsibility. They can't have one rule for some parents and another rule for others. And in any year group there will absolutely be some children (possibly many children) who the school has concerns about.

Show quote history

You are assuming that they are correct about what is safe, which is the disagreement.

If they are being unreasonable in that assessment, which is what the OP thinks, and over-stepping their authority, they are keeping the child against the will of the parent, which is not something they are allowed to do, and illegal.

The thing about being in loco parentis is that it doesn't give the right to over-ride the actual parents. They are still the ones who can make determinations. For example, if the school wanted to give the child medicine, but the parents said no, it is not ok for the school to disregard that because they are in loco parentis. The parents could quite rightly take action against the school.

JustGotToKeepOnKeepingOn · 11/01/2025 01:31

DDs primary school wouldn't allow children to leave the premises without an adult. The children came out in single file with their teacher and one by one the child had to point to the person who was picking them up. It took 2 minutes to do and kept everyone safe.

The school wouldn't phone SS if there wasn't an adult at pick up, they'd phone the parents asking where they were. The child would be kept on school premises until they could be picked up.

If you want your child to walk to a car park to meet you, just let the school know. If they say no, then you have to accept their rules.

janiejonstone · 11/01/2025 01:32

Yes, there are specific circumstances in which schools must comply with parents' wishes where reasonably possible, and one of those is medical. (Though legally, if the child was at risk of serious harm then the school would be expected to override the parents' wishes in medical situations anyway - its duty is to the child, not the parent.) In this case, they are following their statutory safeguarding and legal responsibilities by not releasing a child to the care of anyone except a carer or nominated substitute.

This is purely a matter of judgement about what age you think is unreasonable. Clearly, a school happy to send four year olds off to walk home by themselves would not be complying with its duties. Many primary schools don't allow kids to walk home at all. It depends on a huge variety of factors, including the actual cohort of children in the school and the annual changes to statutory responsibilities.

Itsthattimeofyearagain · 11/01/2025 01:36

TheWonderhorse · 11/01/2025 00:55

Oh and to those asking, I don't let her walk to school in the morning because I couldn't be around. I have older siblings in another school and they need to be taken there. We do that and then drop DD outside the gate on the way back.

Older kids at secondary school SHOULD be making their own way to and from school. You are completely contradicting yourself. You want the younger one to be allowed to walk 50 meters but you're still ferrying the older ones around! So this isn't about creating independence at all, it's about what suits you and your schedule.

Original poster

TheWonderhorse · 11/01/2025 02:18

Itsthattimeofyearagain · 11/01/2025 01:36

Older kids at secondary school SHOULD be making their own way to and from school. You are completely contradicting yourself. You want the younger one to be allowed to walk 50 meters but you're still ferrying the older ones around! So this isn't about creating independence at all, it's about what suits you and your schedule.

Show quote history

😂

Damn you got me.

Except that the older children are fully competent and capable of being left alone or get themselves anywhere they need to be. They just prefer not to walk to school. They walk home and come and go as they please other than that. They cook for themselves and are pretty self-sufficient.

DD does walk down the drive to school on her own, because she doesn't want me to take her in. That's further than the walk to the car after school. Tbh I'm less comfortable with her walking to school because I wouldn't know if she hadn't got there. The office generally don't text about absence til late morning.

OP posts:

Original poster

TheWonderhorse · 11/01/2025 02:26

janiejonstone · 11/01/2025 01:32

Yes, there are specific circumstances in which schools must comply with parents' wishes where reasonably possible, and one of those is medical. (Though legally, if the child was at risk of serious harm then the school would be expected to override the parents' wishes in medical situations anyway - its duty is to the child, not the parent.) In this case, they are following their statutory safeguarding and legal responsibilities by not releasing a child to the care of anyone except a carer or nominated substitute.

This is purely a matter of judgement about what age you think is unreasonable. Clearly, a school happy to send four year olds off to walk home by themselves would not be complying with its duties. Many primary schools don't allow kids to walk home at all. It depends on a huge variety of factors, including the actual cohort of children in the school and the annual changes to statutory responsibilities.

DD came home on her first day in September with a letter inviting us to fill in a consent form if we want her to walk home. It was her excitement at the thought that made us consider it in the first place.

Three months later and it's unsafe. Not just for a while but for 19 months. Does that sound reasonable to you?

OP posts:

TempestTost · 11/01/2025 02:42

janiejonstone · 11/01/2025 01:32

Yes, there are specific circumstances in which schools must comply with parents' wishes where reasonably possible, and one of those is medical. (Though legally, if the child was at risk of serious harm then the school would be expected to override the parents' wishes in medical situations anyway - its duty is to the child, not the parent.) In this case, they are following their statutory safeguarding and legal responsibilities by not releasing a child to the care of anyone except a carer or nominated substitute.

This is purely a matter of judgement about what age you think is unreasonable. Clearly, a school happy to send four year olds off to walk home by themselves would not be complying with its duties. Many primary schools don't allow kids to walk home at all. It depends on a huge variety of factors, including the actual cohort of children in the school and the annual changes to statutory responsibilities.

Clearly these are not statutory or legal requirements, as they vary across the country. Nor is the social consensus in line with that perspective.

The school has no business over-riding a parental judgement on this issue.

MerryMaker · 11/01/2025 02:42

janiejonstone · 11/01/2025 01:05

No, they'll have reviewed the policy for the current cohort of kids as they'll need to do every year. That's a good thing - we all surely want our kids' primary schools to be making and reviewing decisions with their safeguarding responsibilities front of mind. Schools' statutory responsibilities also change and are reviewed annually by DfE.

Legally, if a child isn't collected at the end of the school day then the school has to comply with child protection procedures. Each school can set their own cut-off time for when that will kick in. At mine it's 7pm which is an hour after school club provision finishes. NSPCC sets out the legal process here learning.nspcc.org.uk/research-resources/schools/dropping-off-and-picking-up-before-and-after-school#:~:text=If%20nobody%20comes%20to%20collect,and%20contact%20children's%20social%20care

Show quote history

They will ring Social Services. After some questioning they will find out the mum is waiting in the car park, and SS will tell the school to release the child. SS do not have the time to play with this nonsense

janiejonstone · 11/01/2025 03:06

TheWonderhorse · 11/01/2025 02:26

DD came home on her first day in September with a letter inviting us to fill in a consent form if we want her to walk home. It was her excitement at the thought that made us consider it in the first place.

Three months later and it's unsafe. Not just for a while but for 19 months. Does that sound reasonable to you?

Show quote history

Yes it does. Schools have a complicated set of variables to manage around safeguarding, and it seems entirely reasonable to review their policy according to how it's worked in practice during those three months. That's part of what good safeguarding practice is.

StopStartStop · 11/01/2025 04:36

all I can say is that this is absolutely ridiculous, and vanishingly rare. You are more likely to be murdered in the street than your child is to be dragged into a car.

All I can say is that your lack of awareness is terrifying.

effie19 · 11/01/2025 07:04

If the car park is as near as you say then is it really worth disputing? It doesn't sound like it's giving her the introduction to independence that you say is your aim, if it's a shorter distance than the walk up the school drive in the morning.

If on the other hand the issue is that the car park you are waiting in is Pay & Display so you don't want to leave your car - this being a popular issue at my own child's school, you may want to check if your council offers the 15 minute free period in all the car parks around the school as this resolved the issue for most people around here

Natsku · 11/01/2025 07:42

janiejonstone · 11/01/2025 01:05

No, they'll have reviewed the policy for the current cohort of kids as they'll need to do every year. That's a good thing - we all surely want our kids' primary schools to be making and reviewing decisions with their safeguarding responsibilities front of mind. Schools' statutory responsibilities also change and are reviewed annually by DfE.

Legally, if a child isn't collected at the end of the school day then the school has to comply with child protection procedures. Each school can set their own cut-off time for when that will kick in. At mine it's 7pm which is an hour after school club provision finishes. NSPCC sets out the legal process here learning.nspcc.org.uk/research-resources/schools/dropping-off-and-picking-up-before-and-after-school#:~:text=If%20nobody%20comes%20to%20collect,and%20contact%20children's%20social%20care

Show quote history

And when the school contacts SS to say the child hasn't been collected the first thing they'll ask is if they tried to contact the parents, then the school will have to explain that they knew the mum was waiting in the car park but they refused to let the child leave and walk the short distance to her mum. What do you think SS will say to the school then?
I strongly suspect it'd be something along the lines of "don't bother us about absolute nonsense like this when we have too many real issues to deal with, just release the child and apologise to the parents"

JimHalpertsWife · 11/01/2025 08:07

TheWonderhorse · 11/01/2025 02:26

DD came home on her first day in September with a letter inviting us to fill in a consent form if we want her to walk home. It was her excitement at the thought that made us consider it in the first place.

Three months later and it's unsafe. Not just for a while but for 19 months. Does that sound reasonable to you?

Show quote history

Well, you've based whether on not your dd could do it based on her excitement about it. And it doesn't seem like you think she's actually ready to walk home either as you collect her from the adjacent carpark. If she was able to just get herself home she would be, right?

Ilovetowander · 11/01/2025 08:11

I'm think the school's actions at best are misguided and overzealous. I would not collect my child and let the school deal with it as they will have to back down. The school's power does not extend to determining parents's home life.