Reform UK neck and neck with Labour?

[NeatDog]

Absolutely shocked to read that in a poll Reform UK are neck and neck with Labour...

About 25% polling share for Reform and Labour.

I thought Blair was the worst PM ever, but Starmer seems to be giving him a run for his money.

Personally, I love these reform threads as a split of the right leaning votes is exactly what we need 🙂

I'm actually not, that was ur take. I'm asking a genuine question u seem incapable of answering.

If you're going to try to make an argument like that you might want to pick a country that's not had increasing immigration rates since the end of WW II.

Although I am in favour of Farage being as far away as possible, it seems overly harsh to inflict him on the poor Japanese.

The state of the UK is basically we have a massive housing crisis, the NHS is falling to bits, winter fuel allowance stopped.

We just don't have the schools/ houses/ hospitals for tens of thousands of refugees each year...

Obviously pointing that out makes me a "far right extremist". But it's still the truth.

Maybe but Labour have lost a lot of support going by voting intention polls in a short time

Have a look at how much Germany benefited in covid from the 100,000 Syrian doctors they'd taken in as immigrants.

Meanwhile all the British doctors are leaving for Australia, Canada, and the US.

He was DPP and presided over the biggest shakeup and improvement of the CPS, including bringing more child rape offences to prosecution, in well over a decade. But don't let the facts get in the way of a good story.

I think we r sleepwalking in to 'far right' 'being a normalised and ok party to support , Tommy Robinson seems be pretty normalised on quite a few posts on here already. U can say reform isn't far right and it might technically not be depending on ur opnion, but all the racist will vote reform.

@NeatDog but that 'mass immigration' was hugely increased by the Tory's in the last 5 years in particular because of Brexit and shortages in certain workforces , particularly health because lots of EU workers went home due to being made to feel hugely unwelcome- so instead of lots of younger single people who often just came for a few years , lived in shared houses, didn't need education for kids, had low health needs on the whole - we have exacerbated the problem with whole families plus kids and sometimes aged parents etc! Mainly from 'developing economies' - certainly not from Canada, EU, New Zealand etc - it was not on labours patch - nor did Labour want Brexit - please put the blame squarely on right wing politics designed to appeal to the lowest common denominator because the truth is that's where it ran away - none of this was mentioned with the EU referendum, apart from leaflets delivered in immigrant communities by the 'leave' campaign stating that leaving meant we would be able to accept more people from India and Pakistan - they kept it very quiet they did that- but they did

I was thinking that when I saw Andrew Tate, of all people, was starting a political party. The votes will all splinter off into different right-leaning parties, giving none enough of a majority, hopefully.

Labour make everything worse by refusing to listen to any frustrations the average person has with mass migration. My day to day life is negatively affected by mass immigration but if I voice this I am called racist. This makes me frustrated with mainstream politics and tempted to turn to parties like Reform. It’s frustrating and I don’t want to be in this position but anyone who doesn’t live in poor, neglected parts of the UK have no idea of the realities. I wish I had the luxury of living in a left wing privileged bubble.

100,000 Syrian doctors in Germany? Where did you get that information? The Book of Made up Facts?

Even if it was true, it still doesn't take away the fact we have a housing crisis in the UK.

Nothing in your life is made worse by mass immigration, stop listening to lies peddled by right wing reactionaries and go outside, enjoy life.

Yes, you should be free to make yourself look as bad as you just have in this post.

Free Speech is the underpinning of a democracy. By having open debate we are able to discern the good ideas from the bad, and reach a consensus as a society.

People are free to argue for bad ideas, present stupid arguments, be offensive. And people are free to argue against them. And the rest of us are free to hear those arguments and decide for ourselves.

In a democracy, no-one else should be deciding what ideas I am exposed to, what thoughts I am allowed to have or express. No matter how good or right the person wanting limit my freedom thinks they are. Its for me to decide who I am and what I think. No-one else.

There should be limits to free speech but the bar needs to be really high and actively inciting violence should be it.

I think the problem is blaming all the imagrant for the problems of the ones u listed and not the rich people and 13 years of conservatives ill try and find the cartoon that perfectly shows this

Do you and other pp who post this on each thread think the same for pro Labour posts?

My point is that suppression of wages is absolutely a good thing if you are a big employer.
Different groups within the UK want different things.

Free speech is all well and good but if u allow misinformation and disinformation and people are ill-informed due to listening to lies then that's not a fair democracy and cambridge analytica was the start of right wing farage 'vote leave' specificly using misinformation to spread untruths to get what he wanted. And right-wing trump used it in 2016 elections. That's not free speech that's lies and making ur side get into power based on lies isn't a democracy. If right wing politics are a genuinely good thing for a goverment why does they need to use underhand tactics to gain power? And why do they need to continue culture wars to keep support.

The OP already did that.

I certainly don't post it on every thread as I've only commented on a handful of posts on MN in general!
I don't think I've read any of the pro-Labour threads, but possibly. I'm not a Labour voter if that's the implication, have never cast a vote for them in my life.

Tbh, I agree with you. Big Business loves mass immigration because it reduces wages.

What I don't understand is, Labour was traditionally on the side of the Working Classes, why are they cheering on mass immigration which reduces wages for the Working person?

Labour are no longer on the side of the Working classes.

Well this poll is far too recent to see the self inflicted damage that the Labour party will have done to themselves with their poor handling and response to concerns about the grooming gangs, how they were minimised and covered up and response to a demand for a national inquiry. Before Andy Burnham went off script and agreed that there should be one and turned the screw on Starmer and before the wealth managers chimed in with dire predictions for mortgage rates. So the polls we get in two weeks time will be the ones to watch.

They're doing exactly the right thing politically and getting all the shit and unpopular decisions out of the way early on, while they have a huge majority. Sure they've lost some popularity points, but it's not a popularity contest, it's about leading the UK through and out of the worst situation it's been in for several decades.

**Edited to say the above was in response to @EasternStandard who i meant to quote.

That’s why I said you and others

There is a post on every thread implying someone is paid as you did

Of course there are pro Labour posts but I doubt you’d ask if they were paid. People expect mn to be Labour only but they’ll have to move on as their voting intention is tanking and that will be reflected in posts.

Attitudes like yours leads to victories by people like Trump. You really don't see how you push people to the Right, do you? You can't convince people their reality is not their reality.
You can't convince parents in schools in deprived areas where the teachers cannot teach as there has been high levels of immigration and so many of their pupils cannot speak English ( this comment was made by my horrified Polish neighbour when she was a TA in a deprived area about the high number of Polish only speaking kids in her class. Perhaps you would like to tell her she was wrong and never experienced that).

Or the self employed brickies or trades people who find they are losing high volumes of work or having to take massive cuts in their pay due to high numbers of immigrants prepared work for substantially less than they are? The traders near me were being undercut by two thirds by immigrants. That's huge.

HIgh levels of immigration may not negatively effect you but it has negatively affected others in very core areas of their lives. Arrogantly and ideologically telling people they have not experienced what they have is a way to get them to vote for the other person.