Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Reform UK neck and neck with Labour?

1000 replies

NeatDog · 10/01/2025 11:09

Absolutely shocked to read that in a poll Reform UK are neck and neck with Labour...

About 25% polling share for Reform and Labour.

I thought Blair was the worst PM ever, but Starmer seems to be giving him a run for his money.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
28
iwishihadaname · 10/01/2025 20:15

ToWhitToWhoo · 10/01/2025 19:54

Illegal immigrants don't expect taxpayer handouts (unless they are very clever fraudsters). Claiming benefits would bring them to the attention of the authorities, which, if they are illegal, they don't want.

If your in a country illegally you keep your head down and go no where near any government office or even medical care

ilovesooty · 10/01/2025 20:17

dottiehens · 10/01/2025 19:13

Finally people are waking up to the facts and the truth.
This mess was started by Tony Blair. Everything that is wrong with low quality immigration today is on him. Low wages topped up with benefits. He also negotiated with and let well known terrorists in. The Tories did not have the guts to stand to this and now we are back to someone who doesn’t care about the progress of the country. Belongs to the Fabian Society and is a human rights lawyer not a politician so good luck!

Edited

the facts and the truth 😂😂

iwishihadaname · 10/01/2025 20:19

Pinetreethree · 10/01/2025 12:16

Well, I suppose it'll be interesting to see the reactions of all the women happily supporting Reform when they find out Farage's opinions on maternity leave. Spoiler: he has openly said working mothers are worth less than men and thinks mothers should accept their career will be damaged by going on mat leave - all easily found on Google, reported by multiple outlets. He isn't shy about it.

also their policy on with disability

Readnotscroll · 10/01/2025 20:20

Frightening how billionaires from another country can influence and push through their own agendas in the UK. Next thing there will be a referendum on abortion rights. How depressing

tootiredtoocare · 10/01/2025 20:21

@JHound I was referring to the MSM who pushed the narrative.

username299 · 10/01/2025 20:21

Readnotscroll · 10/01/2025 20:20

Frightening how billionaires from another country can influence and push through their own agendas in the UK. Next thing there will be a referendum on abortion rights. How depressing

Wait till you learn who owns our press.

ilovesooty · 10/01/2025 20:22

cardibach · 10/01/2025 19:15

Name. The. Fucking. Area.
Everything else is nonsense. Name it, and if I google and find people have been told not to go there, police won’t go there, the council won’t go there (refuse collection? Road repairs.) I’ll apologise.

She has the right not to say. I have the right to place no credence on it while I don't know where it is.

scorpiogirly · 10/01/2025 20:22

I voted reform last time, and I'll be voting for them next time. Like all parties though, will they deliver? Who knows but it's worth a try.

Dymaxion · 10/01/2025 20:24

I thought Farage was going to be the next Conservative PM ? He might have a better chance at getting to power that way, now that Musk has decided he needs replacing as leader of Reform ?

Kitte321 · 10/01/2025 20:24

Gtfto2024 · 10/01/2025 19:59

Knife crime might be lower if we allowed guns.

JFC. This thread 🤦‍♀️
Guns being freely available didn’t exactly work out well in the US, did it?

cardibach · 10/01/2025 20:24

ilovesooty · 10/01/2025 20:22

She has the right not to say. I have the right to place no credence on it while I don't know where it is.

Fair. Except she keeps saying it’s real and we are all naive not to believe her claims.

noblegiraffe · 10/01/2025 20:29

That which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence...

ilovesooty · 10/01/2025 20:30

dottiehens · 10/01/2025 19:26

Btw I have my own no go areas by choice now. It could be Knightsbridge or Oxford Street or Shephers Bush or East End. All perfectly fine to go before Sadiq Khan.

😂

Rummly · 10/01/2025 20:31

iwishihadaname · 10/01/2025 19:56

Reform is not a political party it is a limited company

I am strongly against Farage and Reform but I don’t see why it being a limited company matters at all. So what if it’s incorporated?

The definition of a political party is whether it’s registered with the Electoral Commission, not whether it conforms to one type of internal structure or not.

ilovesooty · 10/01/2025 20:33

caringcarer · 10/01/2025 19:28

Reform plan to take us out of the ECHR and adopt most of the same policies but not the one about allowing illegal immigrants in. Once out we can't be forced to house them.

Which is another reason I hope they're never elected.

PandoraSox · 10/01/2025 20:33

ilovesooty · 10/01/2025 20:30

😂

The shark must be getting fed up of all the people on this thread jumping it tonight.

ilovesooty · 10/01/2025 20:38

caringcarer · 10/01/2025 19:33

Reform UK plan to take us out of the ECHR and adopt the same policies under a UK bill of rights. Leaving out the one about putting up illegal immigrants and instead of sending lifeboats to bring them here like the current government does take them straight back to France where they came from. Savings the taxpayer billions of pounds every year. Immigrants should apply to come to the UK legally like the many millions who have done that, not try to jump the queue.

Do tell us what defined routes are available for claiming asylum.

NeatDog · 10/01/2025 20:42

The Foreign Office advise against travel to places like Pakistan and Afghanistan.

I'm shocked that people think there are no "no go" areas in the UK. Of course there are, there are areas where white people (especially women) aren't welcome.

It's time that people here woke up and smelled the coffee.

OP posts:
username299 · 10/01/2025 20:43

@caringcarer You seem to believe anything you're told. The best thing to do is fact check.

For example, if we could take people back to France, do you think the Tories wouldn't have done it?

The answer to that is yes. France has clearly said that they won't take asylum seekers back. Farage is telling porkies.

Exiting the ECHR won't stop asylum seekers coming here as they're protected by other laws. The ECHR is a document containing your human rights and your right to challenge the government.

OneLemonDog · 10/01/2025 20:46

For the sake of argument, let's take as a given that high net migration is undesirable for cultural reasons and, therefore, cutting net migration is desirable.

In order to avoid a significant resulting drop in living standards (and absent some radical solutuion that no government of any developed nation seems close to finding) you need to avoid a shrinking and aging populace. That means raising birth rates, significantly.

This is where right wing or centrist parties run into problems. A few generations ago, it was possible to sustain a large family off a single income. These days, its a struggle for even relatively high earning, dual income households to afford a relatively small family. One of the main drivers of this is insufficiently restrained capitalism, which has seen a huge, prolonged and increasing transfer of wealth from the working and middle classes to the very richest. The mega rich are getting richer, everyone else is getting poorer.

If you want to reduce immigration, you need to create conditions that allow and encourage people to have more children which, in all likelihood, requires wealth to flow back from the mega rich to the rest of us. Right wing parties though, and particularly the likes of Trump, want to either preserve the status quo or further accelerate it's problems.

Stripping away abortion access and limiting access to contraception are other ways of forcing the birthrate upwards, and the US right do that a bit, but they are generally and understandably unpopular policies.

Funnily enough, some on the right appear to be waking up to this issue - see, for example, Suella Braverman's recent(ish) comments for scrapping the child tax benefit cap to be scrapped but, fundamentally, right wing economic policy is incompatible with the notion of a meaningful redistribution of wealth.

The right successfully electioneer off of immigration related concerns but not only do they fail to propose solutions for these issues but, usually, they make them even worse.

Mainstream left wing parties aren't all that much better; they seldom offer radical solutions because, in a world where the vast majority of mainstream media is owned and shaped by the mega rich (and absorbed by the voters) that renders them unelectable.

The above probably sounds like I'm advocating for communism. Yes, the birth rate issue might be improved in a communist system but they bring a whole set of their own problems.

Were I involved in left wing politics, I wouldn't wish to embrace demonizing immigrants but I would acknowledge that it is a concern that many people have and explain to those people (many of whom, are economically left leaning anyway) that the only acceptable and sustainable way to decrease net immigration is through tackling wealth inequality and tinkering around the edges wont cut it. That isn't an easy ask in a global economy but it likely needs to be the direction in which we move.

Right wing populists offer no solutions but they do articulate many people's concerns (and, indeed, fuel them). Even if left wing people are less inclined to object to high immigration, it is an issue they could leverage better to advocate for a more economically just society.

ToWhitToWhoo · 10/01/2025 20:48

caringcarer · 10/01/2025 20:02

The tax payer is clearly giving them too much money if they can afford cigarettes and vaping.

Why do you assume it's the taxpayer? If they are illegal immigrants, they may well be employed (illegally). Or, if they are real undesirables, they may be involved in drug and/ or gang activity.

Or are you just assuming that ALL immigrants/ asylum seekers are illegal?

Gtfto2024 · 10/01/2025 20:53

Kitte321 · 10/01/2025 20:24

JFC. This thread 🤦‍♀️
Guns being freely available didn’t exactly work out well in the US, did it?

Sarcasm, no÷one could surely take it seriously Grin. No more hyperbolic than the rest of the rubbish posted on this thread.

MrsSchrute · 10/01/2025 20:54

OneLemonDog · 10/01/2025 20:46

For the sake of argument, let's take as a given that high net migration is undesirable for cultural reasons and, therefore, cutting net migration is desirable.

In order to avoid a significant resulting drop in living standards (and absent some radical solutuion that no government of any developed nation seems close to finding) you need to avoid a shrinking and aging populace. That means raising birth rates, significantly.

This is where right wing or centrist parties run into problems. A few generations ago, it was possible to sustain a large family off a single income. These days, its a struggle for even relatively high earning, dual income households to afford a relatively small family. One of the main drivers of this is insufficiently restrained capitalism, which has seen a huge, prolonged and increasing transfer of wealth from the working and middle classes to the very richest. The mega rich are getting richer, everyone else is getting poorer.

If you want to reduce immigration, you need to create conditions that allow and encourage people to have more children which, in all likelihood, requires wealth to flow back from the mega rich to the rest of us. Right wing parties though, and particularly the likes of Trump, want to either preserve the status quo or further accelerate it's problems.

Stripping away abortion access and limiting access to contraception are other ways of forcing the birthrate upwards, and the US right do that a bit, but they are generally and understandably unpopular policies.

Funnily enough, some on the right appear to be waking up to this issue - see, for example, Suella Braverman's recent(ish) comments for scrapping the child tax benefit cap to be scrapped but, fundamentally, right wing economic policy is incompatible with the notion of a meaningful redistribution of wealth.

The right successfully electioneer off of immigration related concerns but not only do they fail to propose solutions for these issues but, usually, they make them even worse.

Mainstream left wing parties aren't all that much better; they seldom offer radical solutions because, in a world where the vast majority of mainstream media is owned and shaped by the mega rich (and absorbed by the voters) that renders them unelectable.

The above probably sounds like I'm advocating for communism. Yes, the birth rate issue might be improved in a communist system but they bring a whole set of their own problems.

Were I involved in left wing politics, I wouldn't wish to embrace demonizing immigrants but I would acknowledge that it is a concern that many people have and explain to those people (many of whom, are economically left leaning anyway) that the only acceptable and sustainable way to decrease net immigration is through tackling wealth inequality and tinkering around the edges wont cut it. That isn't an easy ask in a global economy but it likely needs to be the direction in which we move.

Right wing populists offer no solutions but they do articulate many people's concerns (and, indeed, fuel them). Even if left wing people are less inclined to object to high immigration, it is an issue they could leverage better to advocate for a more economically just society.

Brilliant post!

Flustration · 10/01/2025 20:56

I think he might have embellished the story or left something important out?

My very white, very blonde, very female SIL often goes to Pakistan (her husband's family live there). It's not a country I'd choose to live in as a woman, but I think you are overstating the risk level. SIL has been going out a couple of times a year for 15+ years. Sometimes with my BIL and sometimes just with the children. She doesn't even bother to cover her hair in public.

Don't get me wrong - I am a staunch feminist and there are problems with all the countries you listed, but the threat is not that severe.

EDITED to add that I had tried to quote the OP's post about visiting Pakistan but it did not work!

Livelovebehappy · 10/01/2025 20:58

username299 · 10/01/2025 20:43

@caringcarer You seem to believe anything you're told. The best thing to do is fact check.

For example, if we could take people back to France, do you think the Tories wouldn't have done it?

The answer to that is yes. France has clearly said that they won't take asylum seekers back. Farage is telling porkies.

Exiting the ECHR won't stop asylum seekers coming here as they're protected by other laws. The ECHR is a document containing your human rights and your right to challenge the government.

France have previously offered to set up detention centres and asylum seekers applications there. It was declined by the Tories. Maybe Farage means looking into this option? It would be my preferred one, and would avoid any asylum seekers setting foot in the UK, as applications would be offshore.

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is not accepting new messages.
Swipe left for the next trending thread