Reform UK neck and neck with Labour?

[NeatDog]

Absolutely shocked to read that in a poll Reform UK are neck and neck with Labour...

About 25% polling share for Reform and Labour.

I thought Blair was the worst PM ever, but Starmer seems to be giving him a run for his money.

The Tories were in for 14 years, everything and i mean everything in the UK is worse.

Its not a Labour militant view, its the reality of their policies.

Even defence, probably the only thing they used to be reliable on, was slashed to bone, fewer of everything compared to what we had in 2010... despite rising tensions across the globe.... they kept cutting.

@username299 , just mine and well actually increasing numbers of people’s opinion but the amount of damage Labour has caused and their complete inability to read a room doesn’t fill me with optimism.

I think its honestly pretty simple.

In order to maintain the basic state spending that most people (right or left wing) expect, we need to avoid having a shrinking and aging population.

Without immigration, not only would the population be shrinking significantly, year on year, but the proportion of working age people would decrease and the proportion of retirement aged people would increase - and this problem would get exponentially worse over time.

Reduce immigration and either workers pay exponentially increasing taxes or we accept dropping living standards (or, perhaps, we'd have to consider if capitalism remains sustainable).

Everyone is entitled to an opinion. I'll wait and see but you're free to gnash your teeth.

I meant that the realities of office - alone or in coalition - would destroy Reform at the following election. They won’t provide anything new or solve any of the problems they bang on about.

Just stick your fingers in your ears for a decade and sing The Red Flag comrade.

If you could cut immigration without raising taxes and cutting spending (massively), either the Tories or Labour would do it in a heartbeat.

But it's magical thinking.

Ok so last five years. It looks like Labour might be similar

Granted they benefit from a three way party split but other than that the support is much lower than at GE

You acknowledge that some asylum seekers will be criminals but because you are unaffected you think we should accept refugees no questions asked?

Your graphic on countries who take the most migrants is factually correct but without appropriate context is very misleading. I'd recommend people Google each of those countries and look at where the refugees are coming from.

He's been the prime minister for 5 months ffs. Let him get on with it and ignore the (run by rich men) media

Can I ask what reason would you give for Reform to be banned?

We have.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/dec/15/deportations-reach-five-year-high-despite-concerns-of-rights-groups

We theoretically do, it's just terrible. Incredible marketing by Boris Johnson though.

It's like "you need 100 points. You get 20 points for having a passport. You get 80 points for having a job offer (even if it's at a convenience store or a takeaway restaurant). Welcome!"

There's no labour market test. At all.

The definition of "skilled" is extremely broad, basically anything that requires A level skills or above.

The salary requirement was only last year raised by Robert Jenrick to be around the median UK wage. It used to be lower. Perversely, if you are highly skilled with a PhD, you can be paid less.

Do you mean let them get on with shrinking the private sector and increasing the cost of borrowing?

Unfortunately that's not an option.

No, I think we should ask lots of questions, and if someone meets the criteria for being granted asylum in the UK then they should be allowed to stay.

How does where a refugee come from make a difference?

I would imagine we are all pro-NHS and anti privatisation?

I'm pro a working health service.

I am not sure that the NHS, in it's current form, is a working health service.

I would welcome debates and discussions around alternative models, perhaps means tested for free access.

Braced for growing levels of joblessness, it's always another fun grenade to throw in the tinderbox during political and economic flux.

This was the system set up by Johnson as an apparent Brexit Benefit. It's resulted in a huge increase in legal immigration, for low value jobs that could be done by Brits. Part of the problem also is that employers can't or won't train young people or staff, and there is now huge pressure on universities too. Who is going to do the jobs in the future if we don't train people? We have a disdain for education in this country and educators, then wonder why we have to import people.

This.

Out of interest HappyPanda what is this minimum level of education you think should be used? It seems to me you want to go back in time when only some groups were franchised to vote.

@HappyPanda613 I would also like to know the answer to this. Also, what sort of questions will be on the exam paper?

@OneLemonDog yep-!! I stated as much below- I however will be viewing it at that point from within Europe

Why does the average immigrant have to be a next taxpayer when the average Briton isn’t?

Why is being a net taxpayer the sole measure of worth? Many immigrant low paid health workers and carers are not net taxpayers but the service they provide is invaluable.

Perhaps instead of subsidising immigrants we could be spending more on child benefits and nursery places.

The government spends 17k per person on average. An immigrant (assuming they have a job) earning 30k pays 4.9k in income tax and national insurance. They require massive amounts of subsidy.

Each immigrant coming to the UK (if they work) will cost the government over 480,000 pounds (if they retire here). This because they consume more government services than the taxes they earn pay for.

Dutch studies have also found that the children and grandchildren of immigrants are also likely to require subsidy - though they I am unfamiliar with levels of social mobility in the Netherlands versus the UK.

Japan has an aging population and copes just fine. We have millions of economically inactive people of working age in the UK that are healthy and able to work that do not - its a myth we need vast numbers of immigrants.