Reform UK neck and neck with Labour?

[NeatDog]

Absolutely shocked to read that in a poll Reform UK are neck and neck with Labour...

About 25% polling share for Reform and Labour.

I thought Blair was the worst PM ever, but Starmer seems to be giving him a run for his money.

I was simply responding to someone's condescension in a similar fashion.

Your optimism knows no bounds and is delightful to witness in these dark times. You can count down the sleeps until King Farage gets voted in and doesn't turn up.

What I don't understand is, all these peace-loving asylum seekers come from some of the most violent countries on earth. If they are all so peace loving why are their home countries so violent?

Plenty cultures consider women as second class citizens. We all know women are stoned to death in places like Afghanistan.

Does anyone really think that someone's core beliefs change when they come to the UK?

We can all watch the news and see the "grooming" gangs in the UK. We can all watch the news and see the terrorist attacks from people of a non European background.

We can all see that Europe is becoming a less pleasant place to stay.

If 500k a year had their asylum claims approved, that would still be less than 20% of the number Germany have accepted.

I think the number would be very unlikely indeed to be anywhere near that figure, since the vast majority of refugees don't apply for asylum in the UK.

In the vanishingly unlikely event that such a number of claims we approved, there would need to be a national discussion about our entire immigration system. What I don't feel comfortable with is sending people back to countries where they are not safe.

If you think about the average level of intelligence of the population and then consider that half of the population will be average or below intelligence, it's not really surprising that Reform are polling at 25%.

I sort of want them to get in just so people like OP will be forced to confront the reality of their daft ideas head on.

However, I suspect that this will be a temporary surge of support and long term people will stick to the devil they know.

Who said that ALL asylum seekers are peace loving?
As with any group of people, the majority will be good, if traumatised, individuals, a minority will be less so, and some will be criminals.

I don't think many of them hate our secular democracy?

To be honest, I think a big part of the reason why we welcome asylum seekers is simple diplomacy; being seen to be doing 'our fair share' with our European neighbours.

Would you be in favour of asylum seekers if we had an agreed quota? Or if the criteria was stricter? It would be interesting to see if we can find some common areas of agreement!

I think there is a lot we do agree on across this thread. I think there is universal support for skilled migrants - particularly doctors and skilled healthcare workers? I would imagine we are all pro-NHS and anti privatisation? Maybe we could also all acknowledge that businesses are happy to pay lower skilled migrants from economically less developed countries less and that this has had a negative impact on wages, particularly for working class people?

So far, both parties are saying they won't consider that. It's also a slap in the face to their voters to not give them the option to vote for them.

Even if they do a massive u-turn, it's still splitting the vote, just in a different way.

And lift pensioners out of tax.

@username299 , oh I am. 😁

I'm starting to think, "you know what, fuck it, vote Reform in and see how that pans out for you".

One of two things will happen, either:

• They'll do what all other anti-immigration parties do once they're in power: fail to tackle immigration because of the economic impact.

• They'll cut immigration as promised, which will mean having to raise taxes on working people while also greatly reducing the extent of the state pension and, generally, spending.

Either way, their voters will immediately be pisses off.

I can't wait for the promised land of milk and honey.

This is why I am actually relaxed about their win. Yes it will he a shit storm for anybody non-white but seeing the immense disappointment on their voters faces when they realise that their lives remain shit will be rather funny.

Reform can promise all kinds of wild stuff because they are not in power.

Like all the MAGA voters online expressing disappointment at Trump’s comments recently on immigration (although they completely ignored that when he was last in power he did little to reduce immigration numbers.)

Capitalism in it’s current format requires a constant stream of labour. Either home grown or imported.

That’s about right.

Reform’s appeal is a bit like the Lib Dem’s used to be: they had no chance of office so could promise what they liked. When they did go into coalition they became very unpopular. Now they’re a bin for the votes of middle class super-Europhiles.

I doubt Reform could withstand the realities of office. It would be swept away very quickly.

People with below average intelligence shouldn't be blamed for this. We are one country and all our people deserve to be heard. It is our job as a country and our politicians' job to present information in a way that can be understood and accessed by all citizens.

Instead we have sat back, ignored them and then derided them. We failed them.

We left the door open and now Reform and the like have swept in and manipulated them to their own ends.

@username299 , ohh I am surprised I would have thought that in your opinion the land of milk and honey was where we are now with the glorious Labour Party in power? No?

Swept away? In what way

I mean Labour seem to be declining in support and causing damage but they’ll hang in there

Do you think the average immigrant is a net taxpayer?

Someone coming to the UK and doing a low skill job will take more from the taxpayer than they contribute..

Reduce low skill immigration and we'd have to pay less tax....

We need an honest discussion on immigration. Someone coming to the UK to work in a car wash/ uber driver/ big issue seller is not going to be a net taxpayer.

If Reform militants are like Labour ones, it's going to take a long time and a lot of destructive denial before they accept there is maybe a problem with some of their views...

No i haven't.

you ll have to ask Labours Meg Hillier of the public accounts committee what she thought.... a waste of money, all that testing prevented nothing.. yet despite this it continued.

Labour have been in for a few months and didn't promise a load of guff. In order to see change, you need to be patient.

Reform can promise you the moon on a stick (surprised it wasn't in the 'manifesto'), they know they don't have to deliver.

You must be desperate, given Farage's attempt at being an MP. As far as I can see he hasn't done anything.

'at present, the U.K. economy generally benefits from immigration. Whether moving to the U.K. to study or work, immigration often provides an economic net benefit to the U.K. economy, as well as helping to maintain the working-age population while also plugging the current skills gap in many industries.'

iasservices.org.uk/the-effect-of-immigration-on-the-uk-economy/

I firmly believe UK should have a point system like Australia. This also means you'll need to be able to communicate in English and integrate, else you can be deported.

didn't promise a load of guff

Didn't they?

What happened to fastest growing economy in the G7 and ‘smash the gangs’

Johnson brought in a point system.

🤣 Right?