Reform UK neck and neck with Labour?

[NeatDog]

Absolutely shocked to read that in a poll Reform UK are neck and neck with Labour...

About 25% polling share for Reform and Labour.

I thought Blair was the worst PM ever, but Starmer seems to be giving him a run for his money.

@Adamante as is the stupidity of people not realising you can say any old populist shit if you don't have to deliver it and know that you won't be in power

Has anybody stopped to think about what the millions of immigrants who live and work and call this country home think about the rise of political parties that advocate for the removal of people like them?

I'm married to an immigrant who is quite comfortable in the knowledge that nobody is advocating to remove him, his skills and his net contribution and doesn't appreciate playing the human shield for those who don't want to talk about concerns for recent hikes in immigration or the scale of illegal immigration.

I am surprised by how many houses are being bought for refugee families - this one is Northamptonshire council (midlands). A quick google has brought up the ones up thread plus this and others.

Larger properties, which are typically required by Afghan families, are in short supply in the private sector, which is why we are looking to purchase four-bed plus properties - avoiding the need for larger families to move into unsuitable, temporary accommodation.Cllr Mark Rowley, the council’s Executive Member for Housing, Communities and Levelling-Up

North Northamptonshire Council has been allocated funding from the Department of Levelling Up Housing and Communities to deliver 11 houses during 2023/2024. 9 of the houses will be for Afghan families, with the remaining 2 homes purchased for temporary accommodation.

I can see why people are annoyed as council waiting lists are long and a secure tenancy would be amazing for most people.

@Adamante I'm interested in your statement about social housing in London and the proportion of those of non-British descent. Does that mean people who have newly migrated and have been given a property? Or people who people who are second / third generation?
I live in an area with a really high Pakistani and Caribbean population. Many families whose grandparents/ parents come here in the 50s/60s/70s. Their kids and grandkids were born here. But they are still of "non-British descent" Is it surprising that in the capital city there would be a large number of immigrant families who've built their life here? Where do we draw the line if who are "acceptable" social housing tenants?

I work in the NHS. The trust I work in would collapse without immigration.

A lot of money would be saved if no longer paying for illegal immigrants to stay indefinitely in 4* hotels. That would save billions every year. Enough to give pensioners back the WFA and go towards implementing other policies.

Got any evidence for that claim? The left is not the same as the right.

I expect those people are paying for their habits themselves not expecting the tax payer to pay for them as the illegal immigrants do.

Isn't that why labour is working to speed up processing claims?
And by illegal immigrants I assume you mean asylum seekers?

@caringcarer do you understand the difference between illegal immigrants and asylum seekers?

The FT was always fairly right wing, as you'd expect (it tends to attract the City-based 'haves' who want to keep their lives that way). My complaint is with the sudden abundance of posts from those parrotting the lines of the far right and becoming abusive when challenged. They're probably bots or from troll farms, at a guess.

Yeah, that's right.

Anyone that posts something you disagree with is obviously a "bot".

It's really no wonder that Labour and the Tories are losing popular support.

Please Google it and draw your own conclusions. I will not provide links as in this post truth space that we are in, any sources provided are only ever met with sneery disbelief & strenuous attempts to discredit and assign bias to any source provided, peppered with accusations of racism or bigotry. If people are interested in or shocked by claims then they’ll try to find out more. I know I always do :)

It’s easy to find, and then for further reading the UK census website is useful.

Pacifism won’t get you out of this one.

Pacifism is what got us into it......

Allowing freedom of speech is not pacifism. It's called a democratic society.

The only time I ever see people shouting about stifling debate or freedom of speech it's because they don't like what the other side have to say.

If you don't like what the other side has to say to the extent you feel it needs "shut down" it usually means there's an element of truth to it and it's hit a nerve.

Classic narcissist behaviour.

No, refugees don't get free money, or hotels.

www.amnesty.org/en/what-we-do/refugees-asylum-seekers-and-migrants/

You are talking about asylum seekers, who are not allowed to work in the UK. If we aren't going to allow them to earn money and contribute to society in that way, we have to house and feed them.

@HappyPanda613 , Daz and Janice have honourable employment. Their status in this country is equal to yours, their votes the same impact.
Are you some terribly bored 6th former with acne and no friends huddled over your computer pretending you’ve got a life? because I can’t believe an adult human would genuinely hold your views.

Apart from you, we all know "refugees" and "asylum seekers" get free money from the British taxpayer.

We've had to put up the pension ages because we don't have enough money. The Winter Fuel Allowance has been scrapped. Plenty money to put refugees up in hotels though.

I mean the mostly men who have thousands to pay smuggling gangs and come through France on a rubber boat. France is a safe country.

Even there you aren't transparent. Starmer didn't do his undergraduate degree at Oxford (unlike the conveyor belt of Tory PMs who did, excepting Major). He went to Leeds but did then do his postgraduate law qualification at Oxford. There's a difference in the experience and the typical level of privilege brought to it. But I think you know that and are now mixing factual errors with selective presentation to create the impression you want.

Asylum seekers are people coming from a war torn country or persecuted for being gay. France is neither wartorn or persecutes gays. What's your point?

@Adamante

Figures from the 2021 census showed that more than three-quarters of heads of household socially renting in London held a UK passport.

So your claim that "In 2022 almost 50% of social housing in London was occupied by people of non UK descent" may be true to a degree, but the majority of those people are British citizens and may have been here for many decades. Why is it a problem that they're socially housed?

I won't link to the long and detailed analysis this snippet comes from as it is easy to find.

[Keyboard fail - reposting my reply but actually quoting the post I was replying to this time]

Even there you aren't transparent. Starmer didn't do his undergraduate degree at Oxford (unlike the conveyor belt of Tory PMs who did, excepting Major). He went to Leeds but did then do his postgraduate law qualification at Oxford. There's a difference in the experience and the typical level of privilege brought to it. But I think you know that and are now mixing factual errors with selective presentation to create the impression you want.

You do know there's already been an inquiry and that the full recommendations haven't been implemented yet because the previous Tory government sat on them? Didn't see Elon tweeting about it then.

@Adamante ok so I Googled and found this useful fact-checking article.
Lots of points in it.
More than 3/4 of heads of households in London have a UK passport.
Gives you the percentages of those born outside of the UK.

Didn't copy the link!

pa.media/blogs/fact-check/most-social-housing-residents-in-london-were-born-in-the-uk/

I won't link to the long and detailed analysis this snippet comes from as it is easy to find.

Indeed. We are all certainly capable of finding information and forming opinions without being spoon fed 😊

Blair is the worst PM ever? Have you been asleep for the last 14 years?