Reform UK neck and neck with Labour?

[NeatDog]

Absolutely shocked to read that in a poll Reform UK are neck and neck with Labour...

About 25% polling share for Reform and Labour.

I thought Blair was the worst PM ever, but Starmer seems to be giving him a run for his money.

Asylum seekers are put up in hotels while their claims are assessed. Refugees are free to work and aren't housed by the government.

Yes yes but i haven't done any of that.. you on the other hand have & no you don't piss me off, i'm just calling you out for your hypocrisy.

On Trans.. this site was full of people, allegedly would be Labour voters, saying Labour will "Erase women" ...

6 months in, we are still here and always will be.... people will always raise scare stories, both sides do it, Sunak wont jail sex offenders and Starmer is a rape apologist are 2 recent examples.

On Brexit, Leave won, not because of sneery remainers but because Leave had the most articulate speakers and they had a great strategist in Cummings.

The economic argument was hard to get across to people who have very little, they still have v little 8 years later.... so they turn to the next Genie in the bottle - Reform.

Trump won, primarily because they had an opponent that at times seemed senile, followed by a Black woman....

Its lazy to present the left as sneery and thats why they lose... or do you think the right lost in july because they were sneery?

Seemingly, many asylum seekers get a UK passport then go back to the country they "fled" from.

The whole asylum system is broken.

The EU etc has really let Europeans down by not enforcing the borders.

But what you're saying is very clearly untrue. It's not my opinion, it is a fact.

Do you really think the average refugee has the skills to get a job and not need help from the taxpayer?

Do you think someone that doesn't speak English will end up in a high paying job?

I do think a lot of what you are saying is true and I think it's wrong to label your perfectly moderate concerns as far right extremism.

We do spend a lot of money keeping asylum seekers in hotels. It's very unpleasant for them and very expensive for us. It benefits no one. I think pretty much everyone would be behind a push to process applications and appeals much faster and quickly repatriate those whose applications are refused. That does not seem controversial.

I suppose what we differ on is whether Reform will (a) deliver on its promises (b) whether delivering on their promises will lead to a better quality of life for those who voted for them and (c) whether it's a smokescreen for unchecked capitalism and the exploitation of the UK by international big business (and resulting greater income inequality).

I hope Labour read the room quickly before it's too late.

Its lazy to present the left as sneery and thats why they lose... or do you think the right lost in july because they were sneery?

I don't think that the Tories lost because they are sneery. I think they lost because they are a bunch of incompetent liars.

I think you are the hypocrite so we'll have to agree to disagree on that one ; )

There was a national inquiry on CSE generally that included a section on the grooming gangs and in which it was clear that the picture on it was confused because of basic things, like how the data was collated in different ways by policing districts. Beyond that, other inquiries were limited and local. This is why many people would like a national inquiry, 77% of people, actually.

@caringcarer I came across a bunch on a recent stay in my home town- the hotel they were in I personally wouldn't rate even a 2 star - I do stay in a fair few 4 stars in London for work quite regularly- have never come across anyone who is an asylum seeker or seen any hanging around outside etc- however being honest where would you place them as they aren't free to just be on the street and roam around whilst they are being processed- ?? You can't just send them back as it breaks every international convention . Lots of them were on that large boat -

They're usually given ESOL classes. Many people come here because they can speak English.

There are plenty of refugees who are highly skilled in their own countries. We import thousands of people to do low paid work for example, the hospitality sector and care work.

All this is as expected given the system we have. You can see it in the EU and US with recent shifts.

There’s been head in the sand and politicians gaslighting, but that inability to deal with those issues will see them out of power.

You think that is ‘basically’ the job of a human rights lawyer. Wow

We don't take in refugees because it is of economic benefit to the UK, I don't know if it is or not. We take in refugees because we have a moral, and legal, obligation to do so.

We cannot claim to be a civilised country if we don't.

Immigrants may be a different argument, and I agree that we need to look again at our immigration system, but that is an entirely separate issue.

Don't go talking sense now Eastern.

@caringcarer this article explains it all. What's particularly interesting is that while still in the EU the UK did have a system of sending asylum seekers back to other EU states that they'd travelled through. Brexit brought an end to that. Nice own goal for Farage and his cronies.

freemovement.org.uk/are-refugees-obliged-to-claim-asylum-in-the-first-safe-country-they-reach/

We do spend a lot of money keeping asylum seekers in hotels. It's very unpleasant for them and very expensive for us. It benefits no one. I think pretty much everyone would be behind a push to process applications and appeals much faster and quickly repatriate those whose applications are refused. That does not seem controversial.

Totally agree.

@username299 , 400 seats but with a tiny proportion of the overall vote share. Electoral reform is long overdue. What you fail to comprehend but I’ll do my best to explain in the most simple terms I can for you is that Reform attained approaching half the votes Labour did but because of the way first past the post works that didn’t translate into many seats. The thing is they came 2nd in very many seats, it wouldn’t take much to turn those into wins and losses for Labour. And then there’s the Muslim vote which Labour so rely on, it wouldn’t surprise me if by the next election there are many more independents running on a Muslim interest basis and then the likes of Jess Phillips could kiss her seat goodbye. We are looking at a sea change of our political landscape however much you tell yourself otherwise.

Seriously?

Well, I’ll give you two and you can go off and trawl though billions of TV and radio shows, newspaper articles and internet posts and the rest, to find all the others.

The following two stories as debunked by Full Fact were circulated and repeated millions upon millions of times, including by posters on MN:

https://fullfact.org/health/NHS-test-and-trace-app-37-billion-instagram/

https://fullfact.org/online/ulez-expansion-letter/

The left is every bit as bad as the right.

You name called those on the left, you'll have to point to where i did similar...

But you cannot, because i didn't.... thats the difference between us.

The Dublin convention meant only a few were moved. And we took more than returned anyway

EU countries still have this in place, do you think Germany doesn’t have the same issues with this?

Is this true? Where are the stats on that?
Becoming a UK citizen is a long and pretty expensive process. If a former asylum seeker has managed to get through it then they deserve that passport.

You've spectacularly missed the point there, and come to a very odd conclusion that reinforces your own biases.

The refugees are coming from France.....

I'm still not understanding why places like Saudi/ Japan/ Korea don't accept asylum seekers.... but Europeans are....

Why should Europeans have our quality of life reduced by accepting asylum seekers? Especially when so many of these asylum seekers hate our secular democracies...

Ignoring the irony of a Reform voter having to speak to me in simple terms, Labour won over 400 seats. It doesn't matter how many people voted for them, they are the overwhelming majority in parliament.

Reform won 4 seats. I doubt Farage will hang onto his. Many people voted Reform to oust the Tories. A lot of people tactically voted in the last election.

You can talk as simply or as complicated as you like. Four seats and 400 speak for themselves.

Democrats had all the ‘on the ground’ activists going in the US election. It doesn’t count for very much these days it seems