This is grim, yes?

[loveawineloveacrisp]

Gym changing rooms. Woman sat butt naked on vinyl type benches while she rubbed body lotion in for about 10 mins. Bare arse and foof all over furniture which others are using. Put some knickers on ffs, I don't care if you're naked but please don't rub your lady bits all over the furniture 🤮

Genuine question, did that change when you reached your teens?

Ours used to try to whip our towels away from us. 😬

You can only speak for yourself. At times, after a long warm day, mine will have a touch of the John Wests about it. That’s not misogyny, it’s an unfortunate fact.

Absolutely. Vulvas can, at times, smell unpleasant. Even healthy ones. Same for penises. Urine trapped under a foreskin smells absolutely vile.

Genuinely - if your vagina smells of fish, then you likely have bacterial vaginosis which can be cleared up with a short course of antibiotics, and is no more embarrassing than having athlete’s foot or conjunctivitis. Yes, everyone gets a bit damp and musty after a long day, but the characteristic “fish” smell that some women think is just normal because they’ve taken on board all the “fishy fanny” jokes women hear from adolescence onwards, isn’t the norm.

Edited to add - even fresh fish shouldn’t smell of fish. If you’re cooking fish that smells of fish - stop cooking that fish!

BV is another level of awful smell. This is not overpowering, it’s a faint odour, and goes away immediately once I’ve showered. BV takes more than a shower to get rid of the smell.

We still showered together at the gym (communal shower), but not at each other's houses, at least not that I remember. That probably had a lot to do with space constraints, as we were no longer children and didn't comfortably fit in a shower or bathtub meant for one person.

Maybe not stay home, but indeed look away, or go into a private changing room (most gyms have these).

It has long been recognised (cf. multiple academic studies across the fields of psychology, sociology etc) that an aversion to female nudity has strong links with misogyny, as a) it drives sexualisation of women's bodies (makes them hidden, illicit, forbidden, titillating), and b) limits the amount of images of 'normal' women's bodies younger girls and women see, thus focusing them on idealised images in the media promoting unrealistic beauty standards, low self- worth, etc.

Broadly in our (western anglo-saxon) culture, unfortunately, we have internalised a lot of this shame/prudishness (we get told it's called modesty) and I for one think we should all be rather proud it IS changing (breast-feeding in public being an excellent example)

So yes, whilst I know this is not the point of original thread (sorry OP), it's a great and important debate to be having!

If 'aversion to female nudity' equates to not wanting to see strangers' genitals, then I'm sceptical about these studies. Surely given the choice, most people would rather not see anyone's genitals apart from whoever they are in an intimate relationship with? I get that a lot of people don't care either way if a woman in the gym changing room has her fanny out, but if questioned on the matter I doubt many people would have an active preference for her having it out over, y'know, just putting some knickers on. That does not make them misogynists.

As for making bodies 'hidden', covering one's private parts is normal. It's not a sexualising act. And I strongly disagree that preferring not to see gratuitous nudity from strangers, or be naked in front of others ourselves, has anything to do with shame or prudishness. Besides which, how are we supposed to teach children that parts of their bodies are private if they're seeing people with everything out on a regular basis?

You appear to be suggesting that public nudity should be more common, if you're arguing that it's so damaging for girls and young women not to see each other naked. Feel free not to answer this question if you don't want to, but are you a naturist by any chance?

Informed feminist, who having grown up in the UK has subsequently lived in Germany, France, Switzerland, and the US through work, and had the opportunity to observe different trends and societal norms. Absolutely not a naturist - that’s a big jump to make there!! Having these views does not make me a naturist. I’d encourage you to examine your own feelings on this subject and the source of them (and do some reading and research! It’s a fascinating topic!) Aversion to nudity equally doesn't make one a misogynist, that’s absolutely not the link; rather that we have all grown up in a male-dominated world and have internalised some of these ideas.

Your reply doesn't really answer my points though, other than confirming you're not a naturist. I didn't feel it was a massive leap myself; you were positing all sorts of harmful effects stemming from people preferring not to see other people naked; you've also called those of us who are less keen on nudity prudes, which is quite insulting.

I'm happy with my feelings on this and don't feel the need to think or research around them, and I don't agree that preferring not to see other women naked has anything to do with growing up in a male-dominated world, so we're obviously going to have to agree to differ, but thanks for responding.

My old great aunt had a rather crude maxim about going to extremities - one that's come into my mind more than once on reading this thread. 'There's a difference between farting and tearing your arse!'

The extremities bits are the roast chicken, blowdried 'foof', and the naked down-dog pose. I laughed like a drain at these, whilst also taking them with a large pinch of salt, but will admit that IF true they are indeed gratuitous, 'tearing your arse' territory. I sauna naked with a large gym towel around me and apply moisturizer as the chlorine dries out my skin. I mainly use it on my legs anyway and don't make a public display, but if you want to apply it all over then knickers are going to get in the way. It's gym etiquette to use towels in saunas anyway, but a lot of people keep their swimwear on and don't bother.

A woman sitting naked on a gym bench would probably escape my notice. If she really had been rubbing her lady bits up and down the furniture then yes, this would have raised a querulous eyebrow. Scenario 1 is farting. Scenario 2 is tearing your arse.

As to the smaller stuff, and the horror expressed upthread about the sight of a naked woman (presumably in an all-female changing-room), I really also don't compute the British (and US - at least the East Coast) hang-up about nudity. Yes, it does seem to stem from misogyny. As for that ancient, disgusting and wrong trope about women's anatomy being fishy, that's about as insulting and gratuitous a form of woman-hating as you can get. It's usually men who use it, but not all misogynists are necessarily men.

It started out as an entertaining thread, but has certainly turned a bit strange.

I mean, they do smell… a lot of women do have fishy ones as yeast infections are quite common. And even the natural smell has a smell.

Yeast infections don't smell of fish. BV apparently can - but that is caused by a specific medical condition and is curable. It's not the common condition of women's genitalia, whose natural smell is not offensive at all.

This is internalised misogyny to the nth degree. Sad.

I agree; I think they smell of honey!

You’d be outraged at my local swimming pool changing rooms - many women sitting around in the communal area naked chatting and lotion applying on the benches all over! I live in a very multicultural area and many of the women are less conservative than I’m used to!

Congrats your post has made the Daily Mirror already!

😂🍗😂🍗😂🍗😂🍗😂

Slow news day then...

Some infections smell fishy. And another is like a strong sweaty smell.

It’s because it’s genitals. And the posted was clearly exaggerating but the point is that genitals aren’t magically clean because they belong to a woman.

Damp and musty after a long day and after a gym session is gross enough to not be spreading everywhere!

Yep. This guy did:

‘The Emperor then goes on his royal parade through town in front of his entire kingdom with no clothes on’

Well he didn't have any clothes on - so he was obviously parading. The others behind him? They're just following.

Maybe it's "parading about" that you do while naked. There was a parader abouter in my changing room this morning. Put some pants on will ya?

Everyone can smell fishy, it's not just an infection thing. Tiny drips of urine that we all do, men and women, can have that smell.

Being naked in changing rooms is no problem. As someone who used to spray tan woman I’ve seen every shape and size out there. I myself have always happily taken my towel off fully to dry myself etc and not cover up whilst getting dressed apart from during a couple of little phases when I felt I had put on a lot of weight.

That being said I have put lotion on after showering but I have never cocked a leg up whilst doing this or sat on a bench without putting my towel down first lol.

I think it’s something these ladies want to do so people look at them thus giving them confidence. I have a friend who is like this and when a group of us went on holiday she immediately suggested we all strip naked when we got in the hot tub.