This is grim, yes?

[loveawineloveacrisp]

Gym changing rooms. Woman sat butt naked on vinyl type benches while she rubbed body lotion in for about 10 mins. Bare arse and foof all over furniture which others are using. Put some knickers on ffs, I don't care if you're naked but please don't rub your lady bits all over the furniture 🤮

In countries which don’t have hang ups about nudity in places where it’s mandatory or acceptable to be nude, such as saunas and beaches and changing rooms, nudity in those places isn’t a “look at me and how open minded I am” mindset any more than going out in a vest and shorts in summer is a “look at me and how comfortable I am with my naked skin” thing for women in Western countries where there’s no expectation that women cover their skin. It’s just normal, because that’s the way things are. People aren’t thinking about making some kind of statement with it.

No no, not at all. It's not about exhibitionism, or showing off; simply that it's not nice putting underwear on when you're still damp! Frankly, having lived in a few countries, the UK and US are by far the most prudish of anywhere I've been (within the context of a single sex environment anyway!). It's very liberating once you stop caring :). And it's not about the pride in 'demonstrating' that you don't care either - that far too much thought to give to the process when I'm trying to get ready for work post gym. Jostling for bench and locker space whilst clutching a towel and hopping around with one foot in my knickers is simply not something most of us have time for, if you think about it.

I live in Germany so there is a lot of nakedness in the gym changing room, sauna etc, I'm fine with that. What gets to me is gross things people do, and naked sitting on bench definitely falls in that category. In my gym within the last 6 months there was one woman who picked all the black sock bits out from between her toes and threw them on the floor (where everyone is changing, has bare feet etc, and there is a bin), and another woman with her foot up on the side, drying her feet with the hair dryer! My DP says the muscle flexing in the men's is pretty bad amongst either the young or the painstakingly Elder Rippeds.

I get what you're saying, likewise what a couple of pp have just posted about this. I do think, though, that it's different in the UK. Because we're far less of a naked culture in general, I do think some people in gyms here go beyond 'I'm not embarrassed for people to see me naked' to a position of actively wanting others to notice how comfortable they are naked, which to me does feel performative.

The sock fluff thing is disgusting and lazy. As is leaving empty shampoo bottles etc in the shower. It takes no time at all to put them in the bin.

Ultimately I think this sort of internalised misogyny is far more damaging to girls and young women navigating having a female body in a patriarchal world than seeing another woman’s vulva in the gym changing room is. Women’s genitals aren’t inherently unclean, and they certainly don’t smell of fish - that’s just common old misogynistic tripe that some men like to use to belittle women who don’t meet their perceived standards. Don’t let your little girl grow up believing their shit that vulvas and vaginas are gross and smell of fish.

Thankyou. Totally agree ( but you put it much better ).

Agreed, and there is a strong undertone of misogyny throughout the thread.

I don't think many posters have said genitals are gross or dirty. Most are saying they do not wish to share an area where bodily fluids - whether that be normal vaginal secretions or from a not properly wiped backside may have been.

That's not misogynistic.

It’s nowhere near misogyny. It’s about common decency. Changing rooms aren’t a platform for making other users feel uncomfortable whilst you show off your intimate parts

Does anyone remember school showers? We all walked through, naked. Communal changing rooms too.

This. There's nothing wrong with a bit of personal modesty, and it's not prudish or misogynistic to say so.

That's not my memory of school showers at all. Towels were used a lot to preserve our privacy (which isn't the same thing as 'shame' before anyone says it 🙄), that's certainly what I did, and most of my peers too, as I remember. I don't think there are all that many pre-teen and teen girls who are happy to parade about stark naked in front of their classmates.

Modesty is something we choose for ourselves, not something we choose for others. If your modesty is something that’s important to you, that’s fine, and nobody has the right to prevent you practising it - but it doesn’t extend to thinking others also have to feel and behave the same way. There’s nothing uncomfortable or offensive about a woman’s body in a women’s designated changing room, and the revulsion some posters seem to have about being near women’s bodies or seeing some perfectly ordinary skin or pubic hair is linked to internalised misogyny.

Ultimately, the answer to this is the same answer that’s given to people who find it uncomfortable to see women’s breasts in public when they are breastfeeding babies and think they should hide away in the toilet: to look away, or to stay at home.

That is interesting. We definitely went through in one naked line.

My friends and I must have been strange because we frequently showered together even at sleepovers and slumber parties when we were pre-teens. I remember one friend's house had a large shower that fit the whole group. It was fabulous.

This thread was never about nudity in changing rooms. It's about the completely unnecessary act of sitting naked, directly on a vinyl changing bench, whilst moisturising for 10 full minutes. Completely needless and not very hygienic.

I agree that a lot of nudity in the women’s changing rooms at my gym seems very performative.

Follow up question: is it possible to “parade” whilst clothed?

It was - but the thread has certainly turned some hyperbolic corners away from bums on wipeable benches, and into “fishy fannies”, comments about old women and their disgusting old bodies, insinuations that women being naked when they get changed must have some kind of ulterior motive, 🤮 emojis because somebody caught sight of another woman who had lots of pubic hair - women basically doing the patriarchy’s work for it - and how those links have been made from a short post about whether it’s appropriate to sit naked on a changing bench is an interesting topic.

Yep and the PE teacher would stare at us the whole time. Uncomfortable.

Exactly. One day I hope I can grow up to be this eloquent.

fanny germs flying ? You’re the funny one !

“Tonight on BBC - the new pandemic airborne virus,has been traced back to a gym in Manchester. Epidemiologists and a team of researchers say people became infected 🦠 when a woman blow drying her fanny released airborne fanny genes into the atmosphere. Wirnesses say she was mingin’”

I can only speak for myself and say I don't feel any emotions such as revulsion or offence at the sight of women's bodies. I just have a very strong sense of nudity being private. Some nudity is inevitable in an environment like a changing room, but it'd be disingenuous to deny that some people enjoy putting themselves on show and make a big thing of it. And they're going to impinge on the comfort of some people, whereas people who go about things a bit more discreetly won't.

Looking away is indeed what's needed sometimes, although I think it's perfectly reasonable, and not misogynistic, not to want to cop a gratuitous eyeful. However, I think it's very entitled to suggest that people who would prefer not to cop said eyeful should actually stay at home. Why should the preferences of the 'look how comfortable I am with my body' brigade automatically trump those of us who would prefer a little more discretion? Can't both sides exercise some compromise as with most things in life?

Definitely 🙂