13 years, mortgage, 2 kids... No proposal!?

[Faith27]

Hi, super new here, just after some advice..
Been with my partner 13 years in April. We have 2 wonderful children. It's never been a secret that I want to get married. He's always said he'd "never say never" or "yh one day* ..
3 years ago a random, chilled, no pressure, marriage discussion happened. The end response from him... "I don't want to get married, I don't see the point in it!" ... Would anyone else be furious??? :(
We are off to Paris for our 13 years together anniversary in April.. which I planned! He never says he loves me first, never a cuddle or a kiss unless I get one from him myself. But he can be kind and makes me a cup of tea every morning and helps with chores, he pays all the bills. But he's the most unromantic person ever! :( he says he's happy when I've asked. I Just feel lost and lonely and wish for the ultimate romantic gesture from him. What would you do?.
Will he ever propose?? Xx

He isn’t going to marry you. You have to decide how important marriage is to you - I couldn’t be with someone who didn’t say they loved me. Please make sure you are financially stable should you split. There is no such thing as common law wife sadly.

Make sure his life insurance (presumably needed for the mortgage) names you as the beneficiary, not the kids/estate.

And for the love of god PLEASE don’t go to Paris “the most romantic city in the world” with a man who has shown no sign of being romantic towards you, celebrating an imaginary anniversary, hoping for a fucking proposal.

The chances of that happening are slim to none. Tell him that you’ve been thinking it over and you feel a bit silly about celebrating the “anniversary” of the date you met, knowing that a proper anniversary isn’t going to happen. So you’re going to Paris alone or with a friend/sister/mum for a lovely weekend of art, wine, sightseeing and eating croissants. Let him know that you can enjoy life without him, then when you get back, sit down and work out a fairer way to organise your finances, starting with him reimbursing you for the savings you spent while saving him paying nursery fees.

Please don’t do this! Bake him a fucking cake?! Nice bit of wifework for someone who isn’t his wife.

If you own as tenants in common and each own 50%, then his 50% of the house only goes to you if he explicitly leaves it to you in his will. If he dies intestate or leaves it to someone else, you only own your 50%.

If you are joint tenants, you legally own the house completely jointly and it belongs entirely to you if he dies.

Please check which one applies to you. If you are 50-50 tenants in common, you could be forced to sell your home if anything happens to him.

You could see what he says about a small, quiet wedding. If he doesn't want that, there are two options: leave or put up with it. I agree that leaving would be bad for the kids.

If you decided to stay and put up with it, I totally agree with PPs about improving your financial situation.

I wouldn't be too hopeful about a Paris proposal.

It's how my husband nabbed me! Who can say no to cake and someone who makes you cake! I feel sad for you because clearly a man has never baked for you!

OP you really should do a double check of your property via solicitor or mortgage lender.
Are you REALLY on the deeds and mortgage?
Or did you just sign an occupier declaration for the lender?
If you are on the deeds and it's 50/50 that suggests that it could be tenants in common. Meaning each of you can nominate your half on death to go to a third party.
If it's joint tenants then the entire property goes to the remaining owner. This type of arrangement is normal for spouses but wouldn't be described as 50/50 because each party does not own 50 %share. Instead they are both equal full owners.
You really need to know which you are because if tenants in common you will not own the full house on his death, but could still be saddled with the full mortgage if there is no joint life policy to pay out.

However if you are tenants in common that means you could also leave your half to your DC in your will and not to him. So get on it!

Can I ask does he have a bad experience of marriage eg parents? Or does his family advise him not to marry? Just wondering how he arrived at this selfish position but maybe he managed it of his own accord.

                 Your Checklist:

Property deeds
Will
Life insurance
Pension
Increase income
Increase savings
Cancel wifely duties- you are not his wife nor unpaid servant.

It's a shame if you want to marry that your partner won't commit. You can have a cheap wedding if you hire a dress and marry in a registry office

Imagine having a full time decent career, lots of savings and someone to do all the drudge work for free? And you think you’re lucky because he ‘helps’ you?

No he doesn’t - he should be taking responsibility for 50% of the work. You are yourself for what?

Try not to get your hopes up for Paris. He was clear he doesn't want to marry and you booked the trip - the odds of a proposal are slim and you're setting yourself up for disappointment.

Putting all the Financial imbalances to one side, I suggest you tell him you feel unloved. Put the proposal to one side and focus on the lack of affection and words, tell him what you need from him. Maybe a couples counsellor would help. If this side improved perhaps the proposal will become less important.

Depends if there's a survivorship provision or if each own their own half.

The situation OP is in only works if each partner is financially independent and doesn't need the other's support, either earns or has enough private income to live on and their own pension pot. Those couples eventually get married for tax reasons.

You are young enough to find someone better. The longer you wait, the more the dating pool turns into a murky swamp.
Especially if you are an older woman who is not well off financially.

Men, on the other hand, can dump middle aged wives and nearly always find a willing younger model.

Unfortunately I can’t see it happening. In many cultures men marry with the prospect of having children. He’s already got the married life without the commitment. From his side in the case of a separation, it will be more financially beneficial for him to not be married.
If it makes you feel any better, I rushed into marriage very young and went through an awful divorce filled with stress and it cost me thousands. I would never marry again no matter how much I loved someone. You don’t want to marry a man who isn’t giving you any affection. It’s a recipie for disaster.

Why would he marry you? He has everything he wants and none of the financial risk.

Marry him and suddenly his pension amd savings are marital assets.

Say he has
£50k savings
£300k pension
400k house

Currently you get 50% of the house.

If you marry and divorce and keep primary custody of the kids, you might get

£25k savings
£150k pension/275k house or the whole house if you decline any entitlement to his pension.

He isn't stupid. He has everything to lose and nothing to gain by marrying you. This isn't because of romance, it's a pure, cold calculation.

Why would he bet half his stuff that you'll stay together now when you already have kids and are therefore at your lowest negotiating point? Because that's actuslly the point: marrying you would give you an equal footing in law and thats your challenge point; if he loves you and it isn't important to him..Well, it's damn well important to you so what's the real reason he won't take an hour out of his day to sign some paperwork? He's already committed in every way except financially so that's how you know its calculated on his part and not naivety.

In your shoes, I'd set out that I feel its an unequal partnership and I want to get married and really pusit why he wont until he is honest.

@blubberyboo

Excellent advice!!!

Can you suggest you get married to keep things simple if (when) one of you dies. Just two witnesses and no party afterwards if that's acceptable to him. Good luck.

Why did you spend all of your savings on maternity leave when you’re doing the caring and the physical act of carrying and giving birth? Your children are shared. You should be 50/50 and it’s disgraceful he let you spend your savings with no contribution. You should get married to protect yourself but tbh this is not a good partner.

I would be furious but tbh if marriage was of utmost importance to me I would never have kids / a house without it and would clear off if I did not see marriage on the cards within my personal timeframe.
I know it’s a bit late for you but for any other women reading - I see this happen a lot.

Reality is he is living as a married man. He has the dutiful partner, the kids, the house. Everything he would want for free. There is literally nothing persuading him to marry as he also knows you are not going anywhere.

It would appear he doesn't want to get married because he doesn't need to.
You've given him everything he could need and want.
Whilst asking for nothing that you need or want.

Sorry to be blunt, but I just find it a bit baffling how many women post of this board in exactly the same situation.
Getting married from his perspective now only presents downsides, its not in his interests.
So he'll just play defer & deflect for as long as possible.
Play is long enough until the kids are adults maybe, job done, now just walk away and start a new chapter doing something else with someone else.

@Faith27 Excuse me?! So if he died tomorrow you'd be facing a life of poverty? That doesn't sound like love to me. He's not taking care of you at all.

I mean the blame is on both.

Him for lying, her for not holding her boundaries.

The fact that you had to spend all YOUR savings on maternity leave for the kids you both have is really troubling. Sorry you have a dud one here.

No, it would have been easy to call his bluff. So easy.

Agreed. I always say this and people think I am bonkers.

romance is the least of your problems OP.

I would be tempted to say to him unless you marry me I will leave you and leave the children with you. That would put a stop to his gallop. Imagine him having to mind his own children and pay for them and everything?

But you won't do that. You financed your own maternity leave - what a mean fucker he is - so you could have the children he is leaving his assets to without a care in the world about how you will survive.

Luckily you are young. I STRONGLY suggest you forget about your own business - unless it is something likely to be bought by Microsoft in the near future. But my guess is it is something you do around the children that makes very little.

Get a job. A real job with pension etc. Make him pay for the child care you will need. Build your own pension and savings - and do it ruthlessly like he did. Save whatever you can for yourself and hide it from him.

No way to live in many ways but better than being fucked over by a selfish man.