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Brilliant article about the rape gangs in the UK

1000 replies

Petrine · 08/01/2025 10:07

I’ve put this on AIBU as it appears to be most read. A brilliant article about the rape gangs and the ensuing cover up.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/01/07/elon-musk-has-ripped-cloak-of-deceit-off-britain-scandal/

OP posts:
Thread gallery
17
PeppyGreenFinch · 08/01/2025 15:29

Ereshkigalangcleg · 08/01/2025 14:16

But yes, get the fuck on with implementing these 2022 recommendations, which is widely perceived as only happening right now because Musk called you out.

The victims who have come out in support of Jess Phillips disagree with you.

lifeturnsonadime · 08/01/2025 15:29

Lcsucks · 08/01/2025 15:28

The
Tories
Did
Nothing…

This
does
not
mean
Labour
should
do
Nothing

Ereshkigalangcleg · 08/01/2025 15:29

It's dreadful, the racism and islamophobia seems to be on the increase in an increasing right wing forum. I suspect many of the posts stirring the pot asking for enquiries to further fuel racism and upset community relations are either bots ( possibly Musk) or the far right with union jack flags on their x bios and criticising refugees. They prob voted Brexit - typical gammons. I won't give them time of day as Starmer is already jailing racist thugs for online posts - hopefully a few here are and elsewhere are also being monitored.

That's nice, dear.

Bernardscheesyhat · 08/01/2025 15:29

Feelingathomenow · 08/01/2025 15:21

What about a new enquiry because the councillors of Oldham don’t think the issues have been sufficiently flushed out in their town and girls are still at risk. They would rather this is done nationally because they don’t think a local one will be sufficiently independent (do a bit of digging and you’ll find out why)

If that position was taken by the government I would support it of course. It shouldn’t be done to fulfil the agenda of someone who wants to divide and doesn’t give a monkeys about the people of Oldham or Rochdale.

TwigletsAndRadishes · 08/01/2025 15:31

FrothyCothy · 08/01/2025 12:03

It’s primarily a male violence issue isn’t it? For that reason I would oppose a specific clause relating to Pakistani and/or Muslim gangs and prefer a commitment to a full inquiry. Anyone working in local government social services will know that girls (and boys) are being groomed, exploited and raped by men of all ethnicities. The “solutions” may be different based on the ethnicity and religious backgrounds of the perpetrators in terms of intervention but the problem is a shared one in terms of being sex based.

While what you say is perfectly true, I think the issue here is a) with proportionality and b) the fact that mostly white, all non-muslim girls were specifically targeted, so there is definitely a racial/racist element. These men were not raping teens who were the Muslim daughters of their friends and neighbours, were they? These girls were seen as lesser beings and fair game to be abused, purely because they were not 'good' or 'modest' muslim girls. c) The huge problem of ingrained and endemic misogyny and the sense of entitlement and justification to treat these children and very young vulnerable women as worthless sex objects, largely because of the shared cultural attitudes of the perpetrators, which is that girls who are not 'modest' enough have only themselves to blame. And that is an attitude which is sadly shared among many Muslims who, though they themselves would never do or condone such a thing, at the same time they seem to struggle with condemning it. They'd rather put their energies into deflecting and pointing elsewhere and complaining it's an Islamophobia thing. They are wising up to what can be said publicly on forums without there being a backlash, but privately the 'flies will land on an unwrapped sweet' type conversations do happen, including among many young Muslim women, as justification for why they cover.

With other men who might groom and exploit children for sex, the perpetrators have little or anything in common other than a sexual interest in children or adolescents. With these Muslim rape gangs it was a much more a collective and orchestrated act borne out of a total lack of care or respect for girls who were not from their culture or religion.

I'm sure if you analysed other grooming and exploitation cases you'd find the same problem prevalent in other minority ethnic groups too, no doubt also disproportionately represented in relation to the size of those communities in the UK. They may be Muslim, but they may not be. They could be Roma gypsy for example. But I imagine it would come down to the same thing, which is engrained cultural attitudes around women and girls.

I remember someone on the Muslim board complaining that the number of Muslim Pakistani men found guilty of rape or sexual abuse was very small compared to the the number of white men in the UK, which well may be true, but it completely ignores the issue or proportionality and the over-representation in sex base crime or gender based violence among men from certain cultural and religious demographics.

GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER · 08/01/2025 15:32

Excellent article. Thanks for posting, OP.

dcbgr · 08/01/2025 15:32

You can and should deport a dual citizenship person and anyone who gives up their Pakistani citizenship because they were convicted of a crime.

We welcome immigrants and refugees out of generosity and have no obligation to provide citizenship and benefits to criminals.

Most immigrants from Africa, middle east and Pakistan are a net cost to tax payers so we are doing them a favour by offering them a home. They also have much higher levels of rape, theft and crime than immigrants from other countries. That is shown by very good economic studies from Denmark, the Netherlands and Sweden.

We can't deport them because a) Pakistan doesn't want them back. That could be fixed if we decided to refuse visas and foreign aid to Pakistan until they agreed to take back their criminals.

And b) because UK human rights groups and lawyers make it very difficult to deport rapists and murderers. We solve this by removing their abilities to interfere with the deportation of rapists, torturers, genocidaires, murderers and terrorists.

It is not difficult. It only requires the will of the people.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 08/01/2025 15:32

The victims who have come out in support of Jess Phillips disagree with you.

Do they now. Maggie Oliver thinks it's because of Musk's intervention, however clumsy, that Labour are only agreeing to do these things now. As for the rest, I'm suggesting our esteemed government get the fuck on with it, so I doubt they disagree with that aspect. Nice try though.

IMustDoMoreExercise · 08/01/2025 15:32

PeppyGreenFinch · 08/01/2025 15:24

Jess Phillips was already working on the actions, there was need for Elon to make her a target for the far right.

Yes, she was but it would have just been swept under the carpet again as I assume that a lot of the councillors in Oldham are from the same community as the rapists.

LostittoBostik · 08/01/2025 15:33

OneAmberFinch · 08/01/2025 12:19

I think a bit more scrutiny on the individual councils involved instead of focusing exclusively on finger pointing at the national level would be justified.

The more I read the more I'm convinced that many people on the relevant councils didn't just "not want to act out of political correctness" but were actively corrupt and involved in the coverup if not participants themselves.

Just because you're using a username rather than your birth name doesn't mean you're exempt from libel. Mumsnet can be compelled to share your IP details if police request them.

RotherhamLass · 08/01/2025 15:33

namechangeGOT · 08/01/2025 13:11

@ChardonnaysBeastlyCat

Sorry! My apologies.

I'm from Rotherham, I was a teenaged girl when others from my cohort were being groomed, raped both vaginally & anally, sexually assaulted in ways women on this board cannot imagine, being impregnated , being tortured violently and sexually, being hooked onto drugs, being passed around between kebab houses and taxi firms, being shipped over county borders to be raped by others. Gang raped in so many cases. And then systematically let down by every authority you could imagine including Police, Social Services & the Labour Council because of who the girls were considered to be and because of who was doing the raping and torturing. Community Cohesion and the fear of causing racial tensions in Rotherham stopped those girls, my friends, from being given any form of protection and any ability of being able to move on. And it is still fucking happening. It isn't right wing to still be talking about, it isn't right wing to be pleased that it has been brought back into the public eye - not that it was sufficiently enough in the public eye to start with.

So many of you wanting to shut people up have absolutely no idea of the hell that was Rotherham and have no comprehension of why victims, their families and people on the periphery like me do not believe that the Government have the first idea of how to 'implement change'. If the Governments both past and present have a single fuck then it wouldn't have happened and it wouldn't be still happening.

Massive round of applause for this post. I was also a teenage girl in Rotherham while this was ongoing. I wasn't aware of the scale or severity of the problem at the time but everyone knew girls who were involved in inappropriate relationships with older British Pakistani men. I'm talking about girls in my class when I was 14 who would get picked up from school by their 20-something year old 'boyfriends', the girl I sat next to during an A-level class who, at just 16 years old, lived with her 'fiance' and would turn up to college covered up in bruises. No one cared about those girls then and brushing it under the carpet now just tells them that people still don't care.

HelenaWaiting · 08/01/2025 15:33

Iloveshihtzus · 08/01/2025 11:50

So you are happy that young girls continue to get raped; you are happy that men get away with this because the far right are pointing it out? Should we also pretend it’s not January 2025 because, you know, the far right think that too?

I mean, I think this is a stain on the UK, I have been upset about it since I first read about Rotherham, but the reaction of many on MN to this has blown my mind.

Why didn't it blow your mind under the last government? It's been public knowledge for years. There was even a TV drama about it.

PeppyGreenFinch · 08/01/2025 15:34

TwigletsAndRadishes · 08/01/2025 15:31

While what you say is perfectly true, I think the issue here is a) with proportionality and b) the fact that mostly white, all non-muslim girls were specifically targeted, so there is definitely a racial/racist element. These men were not raping teens who were the Muslim daughters of their friends and neighbours, were they? These girls were seen as lesser beings and fair game to be abused, purely because they were not 'good' or 'modest' muslim girls. c) The huge problem of ingrained and endemic misogyny and the sense of entitlement and justification to treat these children and very young vulnerable women as worthless sex objects, largely because of the shared cultural attitudes of the perpetrators, which is that girls who are not 'modest' enough have only themselves to blame. And that is an attitude which is sadly shared among many Muslims who, though they themselves would never do or condone such a thing, at the same time they seem to struggle with condemning it. They'd rather put their energies into deflecting and pointing elsewhere and complaining it's an Islamophobia thing. They are wising up to what can be said publicly on forums without there being a backlash, but privately the 'flies will land on an unwrapped sweet' type conversations do happen, including among many young Muslim women, as justification for why they cover.

With other men who might groom and exploit children for sex, the perpetrators have little or anything in common other than a sexual interest in children or adolescents. With these Muslim rape gangs it was a much more a collective and orchestrated act borne out of a total lack of care or respect for girls who were not from their culture or religion.

I'm sure if you analysed other grooming and exploitation cases you'd find the same problem prevalent in other minority ethnic groups too, no doubt also disproportionately represented in relation to the size of those communities in the UK. They may be Muslim, but they may not be. They could be Roma gypsy for example. But I imagine it would come down to the same thing, which is engrained cultural attitudes around women and girls.

I remember someone on the Muslim board complaining that the number of Muslim Pakistani men found guilty of rape or sexual abuse was very small compared to the the number of white men in the UK, which well may be true, but it completely ignores the issue or proportionality and the over-representation in sex base crime or gender based violence among men from certain cultural and religious demographics.

Edited

While what you say is perfectly true, I think the issue here is a) with proportionality and b) the fact that mostly white, all non-muslim girls were specifically targeted, so there is definitely a racial/racist element. These men were not raping teens who were the Muslim daughters of their friends and neighbours, were they?

Actually Pakistani Mirpuri women have written about their own experiences of sexual and physical abuse.

But their voices have been largely ignored.

Tittat50 · 08/01/2025 15:37

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

We are far more complex than this as people here. It isn't all or nothing. I believe a large swathe of people can agree this needs looking at adequately. Yet, we can accept that the voices highlighting it are questionable in their intent.

The problem with this whole thing is the oversimplification of human beings, their views and feelings! Stop. It's actually problematic and anger inciting for people to feel silenced and stifled by extreme accusations. This is equally bad. We need to debate these things and say uncomfortable things.

I will say something uncomfortable here; I dislike religion full stop, across every bloody religious group. There's something about Islam, right now in this time and society that I'm uncomfortable with. I like to explore that. If we had extremist views that were somehow aligned with say Orthodox Judaism in the spotlight I'd have a problem with that. I think we should say these things and debate them. I'm always happy to be educated and MN has been fantastic in encouraging me to consider other realities.

And I know not every single person following a particular religion is ' bad' or ' extreme '.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 08/01/2025 15:37

Yes, she was but it would have just been swept under the carpet again as I assume that a lot of the councillors in Oldham are from the same community as the rapists.

Look at what happened in Rotherham council. They had their own investigation carried out by Alexis Jay and when Louise Casey came to carry out her government mandated inquiry she found they had completely ignored the recommendations of their own independent report, deciding that there wasn't really much of a problem.

BIossomtoes · 08/01/2025 15:37

MyrtlethePurpleTurtle · 08/01/2025 15:27

To be fair about Pearson, she does write quite good 'chick lit'...

She’s written two very mediocre novels. They’re marginally better than her hyperbolic column but not much. No other paper would consider employing her.

Hoppinggreen · 08/01/2025 15:37

HelenaWaiting · 08/01/2025 15:33

Why didn't it blow your mind under the last government? It's been public knowledge for years. There was even a TV drama about it.

Exactly, this is not a new problem.
I would be very surprised that anyone who can read or who watches TV didn't know about it BUT certain people and sections of the press onl;y see it as an issue since Labour got into office. Funny that
And no, I didn't vote Labour

Brefugee · 08/01/2025 15:38

HappyPanda613 · 08/01/2025 15:05

I’m sorry, I’m just sitting here in tears at what I’m reading in front of me, thinking of a young Pakistani woman, maybe from Rotherham or Oldham, newly pregnant and excited to share in the vast wealth of knowledge from all the amazing mothers on mumsnet, only to chance upon this thread and have all that hope and excitement stripped away in an instant by the horrible words cast upon her and her community.

What has happened to the people of this country? Where has all the empathy gone? We were building something incredible and finally, after a rough 14 years it looked like we were right back on track when the public emphatically selected Labour to be at the head of our nation. And now mere months have passed and this is what we have turned into?

are you one of those with NAMALT tendencies?

Do you have one iota of compassion for all the thousands and thousands of victims of this awful crime? What about the one who was impregnated by one of the abusers and has to make her child available for contact? (there may be more)

etc etc.

You are very very happy finger pointing and tarring people with the "oh you nasty racists" brush. But you fail to understand any nuance at all. For shame.

PeppyGreenFinch · 08/01/2025 15:39

Ereshkigalangcleg · 08/01/2025 15:28

@PeppyGreenFinch it's both the Conservatives and Labour who have done fuck all about them to date. There's a list of them all with updates on the main thread in FWR.

The Conservatives did nothing for 14 years.

Labour have been in power for 6 months and Jess Phillips has spent her life trying to safeguard girls.

How are they the same?

IMustDoMoreExercise · 08/01/2025 15:40

Reetpetitenot · 08/01/2025 15:28

While Pakistani Muslim men are over-represented as a % of population in grooming gangs, it worries me that the current discourse seems to be glossing over the fact that the majority of these sort of horrific crimes are perpetrated by white men. The focus needs to be on ALL the men, not just the ones the right wing deem guilty.

Yes, I agree.

Jimmy Savill was covered up and there have been countless others.

PeppyGreenFinch · 08/01/2025 15:40

HappyPanda613 · 08/01/2025 15:05

I’m sorry, I’m just sitting here in tears at what I’m reading in front of me, thinking of a young Pakistani woman, maybe from Rotherham or Oldham, newly pregnant and excited to share in the vast wealth of knowledge from all the amazing mothers on mumsnet, only to chance upon this thread and have all that hope and excitement stripped away in an instant by the horrible words cast upon her and her community.

What has happened to the people of this country? Where has all the empathy gone? We were building something incredible and finally, after a rough 14 years it looked like we were right back on track when the public emphatically selected Labour to be at the head of our nation. And now mere months have passed and this is what we have turned into?

Muslims will rightly pull away from those who are racist to them.

And then of course they will be accused of not integrating.

MyrtlethePurpleTurtle · 08/01/2025 15:40

dcbgr · 08/01/2025 15:32

You can and should deport a dual citizenship person and anyone who gives up their Pakistani citizenship because they were convicted of a crime.

We welcome immigrants and refugees out of generosity and have no obligation to provide citizenship and benefits to criminals.

Most immigrants from Africa, middle east and Pakistan are a net cost to tax payers so we are doing them a favour by offering them a home. They also have much higher levels of rape, theft and crime than immigrants from other countries. That is shown by very good economic studies from Denmark, the Netherlands and Sweden.

We can't deport them because a) Pakistan doesn't want them back. That could be fixed if we decided to refuse visas and foreign aid to Pakistan until they agreed to take back their criminals.

And b) because UK human rights groups and lawyers make it very difficult to deport rapists and murderers. We solve this by removing their abilities to interfere with the deportation of rapists, torturers, genocidaires, murderers and terrorists.

It is not difficult. It only requires the will of the people.

b) Abolish the rule of law and right to legal representation? Even the Nazis at Nuremberg had the right to legal representation. FFS

Ereshkigalangcleg · 08/01/2025 15:41

Labour were in government when this was happening. Many of the councils involved in covering up are Labour councils. It wasn't all the fault of the Tories however much the Labour fans try to make out that it was.

Feelingathomenow · 08/01/2025 15:41

I think people need to step away from the whataboutery re the Tories. Yes they failed too. Is that now an excuse for Labour to Fail. Whatever your view on musk, he has highlighted a real problem in the UK. A problem everyone agrees is ongoing. So are you going to ignore the continued rape of children because you don’t like the person pointing it out.

We need to get a back bone. We need to investigate why the men in these rape gangs were from a common heritage. We need to find out what link there is, if any between thinking it’s ok to rape and torture thousands of young white girls and the perpetrators culture (the commonality of culture and comments reported by those investigating suggests that there is a link especially when viewed in a wider context). We then need to address the causes and not be restricted by concerns about being PC.

Crimes against children are seen as the lowest of the low in the UK (hence the need for protection in jails). We need to make sure everyone in this country has the same priorities and values, and anyone who does not reflect these values suffers the full force of the law.

TwentySecondsLeft · 08/01/2025 15:41

My concern is that this being used for political point scoring and not out of genuine concern for what happened.

It the women involved are now being used again to get reformUK, UKIP and Elon Musk in power then that is disgusting.

If the angle is ‘immigrants are rapists, let’s get immigrants out of Britain” - then than is disgusting.

I sadly think this is the case.

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