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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Male staff in nursery’s

1000 replies

Itsoneofthose · 07/01/2025 21:58

Ok, hear me out.. I know this is controversial but today I was shown around a nursery for the first time. I’m dreading leaving my little one, only because I’ll miss her and worry about her. I don’t think my worry is out of proportion or anything like that though. But today I saw two male nursery nurses. Now, I know there are many men who are great with kids, and not all men are a threat to children (obviously) and women can also potentially pose a threat to children but I just don’t know how I feel about male nursery staff. Hmmm. I know I’ll be shot down in flames for this. Nursery’s are well regulated etc etc. I just can’t help feeling a bit uneasy about the whole thing. Has anyone else experienced these thoughts? AIBU

OP posts:
Thread gallery
18
RocketMalfunctionPending · 11/01/2025 15:27

Mysterian · 11/01/2025 15:24

Most abuse as a whole is from women according to the safeguarding training I've done. Certainly in my experience of childcare the low level 'can't be bothered' attitude seems far more prevalent in female workers compared with the male ones. I think it's possibly due to the men being more committed to childcare, which they have to be in order to overcome all the prejudice. I would also imagine female mechanics must be pretty committed to their profession to overcome all the crap they get.

Provide me a link to the safeguarding training and the training provider, that has taught you this please.

MartinCrieffsLemon · 11/01/2025 15:27

RocketMalfunctionPending · 11/01/2025 15:23

You're clearly just trying to skew the debate by changing it into something else.

You said you had evidence (which) shows that, in a care setting, women are more likely to physically, mentally and emotionally abuse their charges.

So where is this evidence?
One, two, 3 dozen news stories does not equate to actual evidence.

News stories about people committing crimes absolutely are evidence of people committing crimes

MartinCrieffsLemon · 11/01/2025 15:29

RocketMalfunctionPending · 11/01/2025 15:25

It doesn't matter how many cases it discusses, it's still not evidence that backs up your claim that ''in a care setting, women are more likely to physically, mentally and emotionally abuse their charges''.

Your claim is just not true - unless you provide actual evidence.

You're never going to believe me anyway

You're set on "all the men are bad"

RocketMalfunctionPending · 11/01/2025 15:35

MartinCrieffsLemon · 11/01/2025 15:27

News stories about people committing crimes absolutely are evidence of people committing crimes

They are stories about someone who has committed a crime. They are not evidence that one sex commits a crime to a lesser or greater extent than the other.

News stories are not evidence that '' show that, in a care setting, women are more likely to physically, mentally and emotionally abuse their charges ''
This is your claim and it's a highly inflammatory one. So you ought to either prove it, or retract it.

Do you not understand what peer reviewed research or statistically significant evidence, actually means? If you can't provide a link to either which support your above statement, then you should retract the false statement you made.

RocketMalfunctionPending · 11/01/2025 15:36

MartinCrieffsLemon · 11/01/2025 15:29

You're never going to believe me anyway

You're set on "all the men are bad"

Rubbish.

The men in my life are absolutely top notch, amazing. And there are many.

Reetpetitenot · 11/01/2025 15:39

RocketMalfunctionPending · 11/01/2025 14:01

I can easily control the access male family members have to my own children.

That's the difference.

So you never leave children alone with their father?

Mounjarry · 11/01/2025 15:40

Most abuse as a whole is from women according to the safeguarding training I've done.

Yikes what safeguarding training are you doing?

OP i can acknowledge its underpinned by unfair bias on my behalf, but my instinct is to be uncomfortable with this too; thankfully it isn't something we had to navigate when DS was in childcare. All the stats in the world or well women commit these hideous depraved acts too won't change my mind, not denying some women do this nor am I suggesting I believe all men in these settings do, it's just something that makes me uncomfortable. Similar to male midwives, and before someone mentioned gynae doctors, the relationship between a pregnant woman and a midwife and the sort of checks and situations someone is in without anyone else present differs.

RocketMalfunctionPending · 11/01/2025 15:41

Reetpetitenot · 11/01/2025 15:39

So you never leave children alone with their father?

He died very young unfortunately.

BeavisMcTavish · 11/01/2025 15:43

Itsoneofthose · 07/01/2025 21:58

Ok, hear me out.. I know this is controversial but today I was shown around a nursery for the first time. I’m dreading leaving my little one, only because I’ll miss her and worry about her. I don’t think my worry is out of proportion or anything like that though. But today I saw two male nursery nurses. Now, I know there are many men who are great with kids, and not all men are a threat to children (obviously) and women can also potentially pose a threat to children but I just don’t know how I feel about male nursery staff. Hmmm. I know I’ll be shot down in flames for this. Nursery’s are well regulated etc etc. I just can’t help feeling a bit uneasy about the whole thing. Has anyone else experienced these thoughts? AIBU

What a toss pot. “Not all men are a threat.”

”hardly any men are a threat” you mean.

unless of course you believe men only work in nurseries because they’re raving nonces.

wait till you here they can be nurses or teachers too.

MartinCrieffsLemon · 11/01/2025 15:45

RocketMalfunctionPending · 11/01/2025 15:36

Rubbish.

The men in my life are absolutely top notch, amazing. And there are many.

But you wouldn't let your children be around them...

MartinCrieffsLemon · 11/01/2025 15:46

RocketMalfunctionPending · 11/01/2025 15:35

They are stories about someone who has committed a crime. They are not evidence that one sex commits a crime to a lesser or greater extent than the other.

News stories are not evidence that '' show that, in a care setting, women are more likely to physically, mentally and emotionally abuse their charges ''
This is your claim and it's a highly inflammatory one. So you ought to either prove it, or retract it.

Do you not understand what peer reviewed research or statistically significant evidence, actually means? If you can't provide a link to either which support your above statement, then you should retract the false statement you made.

When someone as reputable as a lawyer's website says the words "most avus in nurseries is committed by women" I tend to believe them

Mounjarry · 11/01/2025 15:49

MartinCrieffsLemon · 11/01/2025 15:46

When someone as reputable as a lawyer's website says the words "most avus in nurseries is committed by women" I tend to believe them

Is that worked out proportionately? Seen as though the vast vast majority of nursery workers are women, that doesn't really explain whether on an individual level a man poses a greater threat than a woman?

RocketMalfunctionPending · 11/01/2025 15:51

MartinCrieffsLemon · 11/01/2025 15:45

But you wouldn't let your children be around them...

Of course I do, my child is 15 now and very resilient, very streetwise and built like a brick shithouse.
If anyone touched him inappropriately he'd break their fingers

FizzyBisto · 11/01/2025 15:51

RocketMalfunctionPending · 11/01/2025 15:12

What that my son's father is a paedophile?

Jog on.

There's 3 of you on this thread that will do anything to stop women from having concerns about men around their pre-school children.

I wonder why you are so protective of men who want to work with children, rather than the children themselves ? 🤔

Perhaps you are all historic members of PIE

You must be Inspector Gadget to be able to make such a massive reach as that.

BashfulClam · 11/01/2025 15:57

Thedownstream · 07/01/2025 22:11

YABU but I understand where your thoughts are coming from. Because it is not the norm to see a man working in a nursery (it’s not a role it seems most men want to do) you feel suspicious as to the motives of a man who does want to do it.

For what reason for example would a man want to work in an environment where there is no other male amongst their colleagues? I would think most men who enjoy working with children would choose a primary school or a sports coaching provider, where they would likely have some male colleagues.

So this leads you down a route of thinking, why does he want to work there, I wouldn’t want to be the only woman working in a garage (for example), and coming to the conclusion that it could be for disturbing reasons (even if in reality it likely isn’t).

Wow this is exactly the attitudes women fought when we were told we couldn’t be plumbers, bricklayers, mechanics, engineers, HGV drivers….you are exactly the same as the sexists drivelling idiots who told women they couldn’t do certain jobs!

Reetpetitenot · 11/01/2025 15:57

RocketMalfunctionPending · 11/01/2025 15:41

He died very young unfortunately.

Sad, for you and for him, not being able to see his children grow.

Mysterian · 11/01/2025 15:59

RocketMalfunctionPending · 11/01/2025 15:27

Provide me a link to the safeguarding training and the training provider, that has taught you this please.

The internal training my school provides and I believe the online one we do but it's all behind a paywall so I can't get quotes.
When you Google "child abuse" it comes up with lots of links for "Child sexual abuse..." and tends to ignore physical, emotional, and neglect. People seem to care about that abuse less.

Itsoneofthose · 11/01/2025 16:02

BeavisMcTavish · 11/01/2025 15:43

What a toss pot. “Not all men are a threat.”

”hardly any men are a threat” you mean.

unless of course you believe men only work in nurseries because they’re raving nonces.

wait till you here they can be nurses or teachers too.

Do you mean ‘hear’ ? ‘Hardly any men’ hahahaha. Oh to be as green as you. Green as grass.

OP posts:
FizzyBisto · 11/01/2025 16:06

MartinCrieffsLemon · 11/01/2025 15:20

But you claimed you could only find 2 cases. When one of those cases involved 4 women

Which was what I was refuting

Because you were misrepresenting the facts

But then you're only concern is sexual abuse and you don't care that women literally KILL babies in their care

I'm astonished how many people on here are so dead set on preventing their children from becoming victims of sexual abuse in a childcare setting, but somehow don't seem to care less about any of the other kinds of child abuse that female childcare workers could just as easily perpetuate.

Nobody on this thread has even given us a single characteristic or 'red flag' that would make them personally distrustful of any female childcare workers or at least want further checks or reassurances before allowing them to have responsibility for their child.

I'm shocked at how blasé and unconcerned some people can be about most very real potential risks to their children, whilst also being extremely vocal about other specific potential risks.

RocketMalfunctionPending · 11/01/2025 16:06

MartinCrieffsLemon · 11/01/2025 15:48

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/articles/childphysicalabuseinenglandandwales/yearendingmarch2019#what-do-we-know-about-perpetrators-of-child-physical-abuse-

It's very hard to find data about physical abuse, because of the obsession with sexual abuse and because of the way data is followed, but it's interesting here to say that you should be more worried about your son around a teacher/etc than your daughter

Thanks for the link.

The information here does not support your claim.

The only reference this research makes to abuse in a 'care setting' is this one:

  • men were around four times as likely as women to have experienced physical abuse by a person in a position of trust or authority, such as a teacher, doctor or youth worker, at 11% compared with 3% (of women)

11% of boys abused were abused by a person in a position of trust or authority.

Hwi · 11/01/2025 16:09

NewFriendlyLadybird · 11/01/2025 10:47

Hold on. This is a very silly argument. We’re talking about systemic inequalities that arise because some things are assumed to be ‘women’s work’ and some ‘men’s work’ . And the women’s work is invariably lower status and less well paid than the men’s work. And this has very little to do with the acknowledged AVERAGE physical differences between men and women.

We can’t insist that there is 50/50 representation in physical labouring jobs, for example. But we should be able to say that any woman who has the physical ability to match the minimum required for the job and wants to do it should not be rejected because of the prejudicial belief that women are not as strong as men and therefore unsuited for jobs as physical labourers simply because of their sex.

We can’t make all women as good at chess as all men. As it’s a minority activity that people choose to learn, we can’t even be sure that women in general are not as good at chess as men in general. The residential chess schools in some Eastern bloc countries would not pass as a sample. All we can do is make sure that the women who want to play chess and turn out to be good at it are able to compete on a level playing field with other good chess players, whatever their age, sex, ethnicity or any other characteristic that people may have prejudices about but in no way affects their actual individual ability to play chess.

We should not stop men who choose to go into caring jobs working in nurseries because of a load of silly prejudices about women being better and more natural carers, and men who want to be carers only really wanting access to small children so that they can abuse them while changing their nappies.

I see what you are saying, but I would rather believe what Nigel Short is saying about women chess players and the international chess ranking, which is shocking for the equality supporters. Also, your statistics are all wrong, the same amount of men and women try to participate in chess, with the same equal opportunities of training, but practically no women make it to grand masters. Interestingly, Nigel Short has a theory of women being risk averse, having lower testosterone levels, which is exactly what makes them far superior and cautious surgeons (apart from ortho) than men.

Equally, no male nurse or nursery nurse has ever been allowed to come anywhere near my dc. My dc, my choice. (Did we have some shit female nursery nurses and female medical nurses - yes, of course).Those males in caring professions have the right to do whatever they want, and equally we have the right not to use their services.

"any woman who has the physical ability to match the minimum required for the job and wants to do it should not be rejected because of the prejudicial belief" - I am sorry, bugger that for a game of soldiers, they can indulge in their physical strength equality fantasies, but not at my expense - a female plumber came out to my aunt to fix things - not only was she clueless and useless, but my aunt had to help her take the boiler down because the lady was not strong enough - and my aunt has a hernia and is not allowed to lift anything heavy. Unfortunately, my aunt was to polite to ask for a man and she was hospitalised, what a sacrifice on the alter of equality, damn it. (Same nonsense with female hand-to-hand combat soldiers - good luck to them if men in nighties and flip-flops saw off the UK and US male soldiers in Afghanistan).

fuzzycob · 11/01/2025 16:11

You need a background check to work with children, and these men have clearly passed theirs. Disgusting that these men, many of whom may well be fathers, or have experience with younger family members, are viewed as "probably a paedophile" just because they wanted to work with children.
It's much more likely they find it rewarding, or have relevant experience and thought they'd be good at it...same kinds of motivations as the women who choose to do this job.

The idea that it's a woman's role is outdated and has its roots in the same ideas that had men refusing to ever change a nappy, do the laundry, or run the vacuum round.

RocketMalfunctionPending · 11/01/2025 16:13

Mysterian · 11/01/2025 15:59

The internal training my school provides and I believe the online one we do but it's all behind a paywall so I can't get quotes.
When you Google "child abuse" it comes up with lots of links for "Child sexual abuse..." and tends to ignore physical, emotional, and neglect. People seem to care about that abuse less.

The provider of the training will have issued your Safeguarding training certificate.
Take a look at your certificate (emailed once the training completed) and let me know who it is as I would like to look into this further.

Thanks

RocketMalfunctionPending · 11/01/2025 16:18

fuzzycob · 11/01/2025 16:11

You need a background check to work with children, and these men have clearly passed theirs. Disgusting that these men, many of whom may well be fathers, or have experience with younger family members, are viewed as "probably a paedophile" just because they wanted to work with children.
It's much more likely they find it rewarding, or have relevant experience and thought they'd be good at it...same kinds of motivations as the women who choose to do this job.

The idea that it's a woman's role is outdated and has its roots in the same ideas that had men refusing to ever change a nappy, do the laundry, or run the vacuum round.

The background check (DBS) only shows if there is a criminal record related to the work.

If a person has never been cautioned or convicted of a child abuse crime, they will pass the checks easily.

It's pretty worthless in terms of a guarantee. There is no guarantee. None.

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