To think asking permission to take off a blazer is utterly ridiculous?

[ShowJumpSally]

My child's school has just moved into a new trust. Clearly it's one of those trusts as the latest email announces how children will be placed in internal exclusion or be suspended if they dare to wear a coat in the building or take their blazer off without asking permission.

Schools consistently moan about funding, there's a teaching retention crisis, teachers are overworked and leaving in their hoards, TAs are underpaid and in short supply, children's mental health is worse than ever, but somehow there's time and money to dish out internal exclusions if child gets hot and dares takes their blazer off without asking?

Aibu to say schools should try focussing their time, attention and money on the real issues instead of nonsense made up ones?
^

I think the blazer issue is a focus. But it is important to have rules that are enforced if you choose to have a uniform. If students must ask permission to take off a blazer in class this means that they are wearing it when they should be and keeping to the uniform dress code. Let that one slip and the lot slips, everyone will be not wearing blazers, leaving around to get lost etc. and the uniform code (and a lot else about the discipline code in the school) will be lost. Schools do not exist to make children happy (though it's nice if they do), they are there to pass on the knowledge base of a culture and to learn how to use that knowledge base. If asking to take off a blazer helps that function - and it probably will because it is supporting the discipline code - the school needs it.

@Grammarnut so other than existing to make a rule for everyone to obey to - what's the point of a blazer?
Why not just insist everyone has to wear a yellow plastic bracelet or something if you want them to have a rule to follow?

We didn’t have a blazer rule at school - I now don’t know how the school managed to hold its shit together. They must have used some other kind of Hogwarts magic to impart cultural knowledge.

"We didn’t have a blazer rule at school - I now don’t know how the school managed to hold its shit together. They must have used some other kind of Hogwarts magic to impart cultural knowledge"

In my early 70's state girl's school you only wore your blazer to school in the summer term or beginning of Autumn term and you hung it on your peg in one of the designated cloakrooms, as it was outdoor clothing. In the winter you wore your navy blue hooded mac. There were 800 in the school and everyone had a peg to hang their blazer, velour hat and mac. All you ever had on in the classroom was your jumper which you could take on and off as desired. No logos on any piece of uniform. The only uniform checks I remember was something about steel tips on shoes. With schools being so large now, having your own peg on which to hang outdoor clothing seems like a crazy dream.

Have you broached your outrage with the SLT and followed up with the school govs if that did not go the way you wanted it is your rage saved up for Mumsnet?
Every school has a complaints process, just follow that and you may get a meeting and a better understanding of why schools do this stuff. It’s usually because it helps, rather than to upset you. From reading your responses it appears you have a beef with the school already, so you may be better to look at an alternative option. Good luck.

All they have to do is ask permission! Ffs, is that too much to expect a kid to do without jeopardising their mental health and human rights?

Which would be fine except for the fact that teachers often say no.

Lots of schools have this rule. Not unreasonable imo

<Sigh>. It is a completely and utterly pointless rule. It benefits absolutely nobody in any way. No, the vast, vast majority of kids will not find it traumatic to their mental health to have to ask to take their blazer off. That's a pretty shit bar to set for the definition of a good, worthwhile rule though, isn't it?

Consider on the other hand having the policy that kids can take off their blazers whenever they feel too hot in them. Pretty sensible, no? Requires no teacher intervention. Wastes no time. Has no negative effect on anyone at all.

Good lord, what a lot of absolute hogwash. I know - why not make the uniform dress code say 'students may take off their blazers if they are too hot'. Hey presto - everyone is now obeying the 'discipline code' with regard to blazer-wearing. Hurrah!

At my kids school it's a detention for not wearing your blazer (a totally pointless piece of kit), yet fine for skirts to be so short you can see knickers... wierd!

He won't like it in the Officers Mess if he joins any of the Armed Forces then

So very true. 😂

Oh no! 🙄

It’s not about the blazer. It’s about respect and following the rules.

It’s ridiculous. If we don’t permit our children to have autonomy over their own temperature, i don’t know how we expect them to learn any decision making skills.

Perfectly normal rule and a sign of high standards. Behaviour is out of control at many schools and you should be thankful yours is trying to address it. Blazers are a compulsory part of the uniform so the default position should be that they are worn.

The DCs’ school have compulsory blazers all year and also compulsory jumpers in winter. If a particular classroom is exceptionally warm, permission can be given by the individual teacher to remove at their discretion. Otherwise, they are worn at all times. Not an issue.

I would always choose a school with high standards over tracksuit and trainers as some seem to want.

The other thing I would say is that many people haven’t the faintest idea of the extent of poor behaviour in many schools. Here are some highlights from one recent Ofsted report of a normal secondary school:

Pupils are typically disengaged in lessons. They may ignore the teacher and chat among themselves. Some pupils can be defiant. They do not respond to adults’ requests, and they leave lessons because they want to. Some pupils think they need to misbehave to fit in. Certain behaviour is dangerous, such as planned fights, and this has left pupils and staff feeling unsafe.

Pupils do not treat one another with respect. Name-calling, the use of homophobic
language and bullying are features of everyday life for too many pupils. Pupils have stopped reporting bullying because, too often, ‘nothing happens’. The negative experiences pupils have at school mean they do not want to attend.

Some staff spend their time looking for pupils on site as they are not where they should be. Truanting pupils cause problems by disturbing other lessons.

Many parents and staff agree that pupils are not safe on site. Some of the most vulnerable pupils have suffered serious violence or harm by other
pupils.

Staff report that they have received injuries from pupils, but school leaders have no oversight of this.

The school’s core values of ‘respect, responsibility and resilience’ are often ignored. Too many pupils have a lack of respect for one another and for adults who work at the school. Some behaviour is unsafe.

Would those who are anti-discipline rather send their DC to the one above or the one where they might get a bit warm in their blazer? I know which I’d choose.

And that could be all fixed with enforced blazer wearing - seems almost too simple doesn't it.🤔

@TreeSquirrel as I said upthread perhaps the school leaving age should be lowered back down.
Teens who are full of energy and hormones.
They are bored with learning - especially as the curriculum is so academic based.
Let them free to go and get on with their lives.

What is disrespectful about removing a jacket when you are too hot?
I agree that students should follow the school rules. I also think that schools shouldn't make stupid, pointless rules.

A google search for what you have quoted brings up an Ofsted report for a school that does in fact wear blazers....

It's not either or. You are making totally false assumptions. What on earth makes you think that schools which make students ask to take their blazers off have better behaviour? Or that parents who recognise a silly rule for what it is are 'anti-discipline'?

I've worked in a lot of schools. I've seen absolutely zero evidence that anally-retentive, nit-picky rules like this are a hallmark of good schools with good behaviour. If anything, the opposite. They tend to be 'window-dressing' measures introduced by misguided or disingenuous headteachers who are tinkering round the edges trying to look as though they are doing something useful about their huge behaviour problems (which continue in spite of blazer fussiness).

Hi would this school by any chance be in Stanford le hope Essex if so please place your child else where or joined Stanford le hope Facebook forum and really understand from the children’s parents how utterly bad it is

The point is that schools which insist on high standards in all areas of school life, from uniform to homework, tend to have the best behaviour and (not coincidentally) the best results. Those which allow DC to saunter in the door in hoodies and trainers, not so much.

There is a reason why the vast majority of the top private and state schools in the country have great behaviour and DC in smart uniform. Meanwhile, the one I mentioned has some of the worst outcomes in the country…