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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think asking permission to take off a blazer is utterly ridiculous?

648 replies

ShowJumpSally · 07/01/2025 16:00

My child's school has just moved into a new trust. Clearly it's one of those trusts as the latest email announces how children will be placed in internal exclusion or be suspended if they dare to wear a coat in the building or take their blazer off without asking permission.

Schools consistently moan about funding, there's a teaching retention crisis, teachers are overworked and leaving in their hoards, TAs are underpaid and in short supply, children's mental health is worse than ever, but somehow there's time and money to dish out internal exclusions if child gets hot and dares takes their blazer off without asking?

Aibu to say schools should try focussing their time, attention and money on the real issues instead of nonsense made up ones?
^

OP posts:
Phthia · 07/01/2025 18:35

Grammarnut · 07/01/2025 17:18

Rules about being kind? How can you enforce that in any way? The schools that insist on what look like petty rules tend to have little bullying. I am thinking of Michaela, in a poor area of London. It has this sort of rule, plus silence in corridors and when lining up etc. It has excellent results and most of the students are happy - and particularly note that there is no bullying.

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The school claims there is no bullying. That isn't what the pupils say.

MereDintofPandiculation · 07/01/2025 18:35

Livelovebehappy · 07/01/2025 18:17

Do you really have nothing else going on in your life that you could focus on, rather than this? Does it really matter? It just seems such a trivial issue for you to give so much head space to…

So which threads do you currently think are worthy of your valuable time?

As far as I know, mumsnet has no rules banning "trivial" threads.

Sinkintotheswamp · 07/01/2025 18:35

Yanbu. If they tried that nonsense in even the most chilled office they'd have a riot.
Everyone feels the temperature differently, let kids wear what they need to be warm / cool. No wonder kids struggle with anxiety with these type of rules going on.

AllProperTeaIsTheft · 07/01/2025 18:35

Phthia · 07/01/2025 18:33

Children actually learn to follow rules much better when they are sensible rules. No-one learns anything useful from being forced by the threat of disproportionate punishment into complying with stupid ones.

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Exactly.

TheKeatingFive · 07/01/2025 18:36

Phthia · 07/01/2025 18:18

This is one of the great myths around school uniform. No-one needs to spend several years wearing school uniform to teach them that, when they're in work, they have to comply with their employer's dress code. All over the world there are people who have never been in a school with uniform who manage perfectly well once in employment, even employment in occupations requiring uniforms.

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The other thing that's so ridiculous about this argument is that between school and work, many kids go to university / college where they wear what they like.

Why is it so important for a five year old to wear a uniform, but a not a twenty year old? 🫠

Tootiredmummyof3 · 07/01/2025 18:36

They aren't saying they have to wear their blazer, just they need to ask before removing it. I'm sure most teachers will say yes. It was the same when I was at school and we managed to ask.
When it was really hot sometimes the head would give permission to leave blazers at home. Other than that we got detention if we didn't have them on.
My kids went to a different school and they had to wear jumpers there (no blazers thankfully) and no outdoor coats in class which seems fair enough.

Runnersandtoms · 07/01/2025 18:36

Hoppinggreen · 07/01/2025 16:50

They have this policy at my DC's school and I am fine with it.
My DC can actually say it in 3 languages despite not studying languages for some years now

'Can I take my blazer off' is literally the first thing they learn in MFL in year 7 at our school. It's the only thing my daughter can say in German having given it up after two years. What a useful phrase for your holiday.....

Sunnysidesoon · 07/01/2025 18:37

AllProperTeaIsTheft · 07/01/2025 18:23

I work in a lovely school where behaviour has always been very good. The new Head, who has come from a big academy, has introduced blazers (along with rules about where and when they must be worn) and various other new rules, and is generally trying to make the school more regimented. The kids (and most of the staff) hate it and have very little respect for the Head. No positive effects have arisen from the changes.

So you've got 1200 people all who can't operate as a cohesive community. That bodes well.

Appleyo · 07/01/2025 18:38

AllProperTeaIsTheft · 07/01/2025 18:34

But the answer to this is not to create more and more trivial rules. It's to have a limited set of actually important rules but be very strict about them. The advantage of this is that students see that the school cares about important things and takes prompt and serious action about them. Every time. Rather than obsessing about a load of silly, trivial nit-picky rules and not having the time or will to follow through on them because there are too many and half the teachers think they're ridiculous anyway.

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I agree with this. I was a well behaved student, and now I’m a well behaved member of society and employee.

I did flout school rules I thought to be trivial and stupid, and I turned out fine. The trivial rules made no difference and tbh probably didn’t to the ‘rule breakers’ either. Not being allowed to wear nail varnish did little to influence their lives’ direction. 😂

adviceneeded1990 · 07/01/2025 18:38

Needmorelego · 07/01/2025 16:08

@ShowJumpSally I think it is ridiculous.
Yes it's "the rules" but it's a completely stupid and pointless one.
I hate blazers full stop but if a school is going to have them the students should be allowed to decide if they are too hot or cold.
Also blazers are expensive so you will have Year 7s wearing ones too big and Year 11s wearing ones to small which will effect how they can write, move their arms etc.
This is one of the biggest time wasting pieces of crap a school can have.

I used to think so too but I teach in a state school with lax uniform rules and you wouldn’t believe how much of my day, especially when in charge of infant classes, is spent searching for, arguing about and being shouted at by parents about, lost property. I think if someone is too stupid to label a six year olds belongings then they deserve for them to lose it, but I’m not allowed to say that out loud! 🙄 A rule where expensive items must be kept on to avoid losing them isn’t the worst thing in the world and probably saves a lot of time being dragged away from learning.

Phthia · 07/01/2025 18:39

LittleMG · 07/01/2025 17:26

Right of wrong, the reason is because behaviour is out of control in schools and they are coming down hard. They need to do something as kids walk about with insane clothes on they take the mic basically. So a hard line needs to be taken in their opinion.

How is taking off a blazer when you are hot "walking around in insane clothes"?

In schools that don't have uniforms, the reality is that the kids almost all come in wearing jeans and a jumper, swapped for a T shirt in the summer.

The reality is that many schools make up petty rules because they are much easier to enforce than rules against bullying, theft etc; you can't hide a uniform infraction, whereas bullies and thieves are adept at hiding what they do. Which category would parents rather that schools concentrated on?

kindlyensure · 07/01/2025 18:40

I must admit, if I was a teacher this question would drive me BONKERS. I can barely tolerate it from my own kids - 'should I take a coat' 'will I need a jumper....Even DH joins in...'Might I need a scarf'.

I don't bloody know! Look out the window and judge for yourself.

With the blazer on/off question, it sounds like we are in danger of educating a generation of mental-loaders.

Sinkintotheswamp · 07/01/2025 18:41

Having to ask is scary for a lot of children. They will sit there feeling uncomfortable, too hot and sweaty and not able to learn effectively due to daft rules like this.

Phthia · 07/01/2025 18:41

Whydoeseveryonewanttoargue · 07/01/2025 17:29

They aren’t disgusting and you have answered your own question. One day all these kids will get jobs and have numerous rules to abide by whether they like it or not.

The individual rules aren’t arbitrary and taken individually don’t account for the fact that it is an overall environment for prep in the real world.

Every single work place has rules. When to show up, what to wear, how to behave, what to do at work etc.

So anyone who doesn’t think that preparing kids for the real world doesn’t understand why the rules re there to begin with amd just don’t like being able to do what her they want to do. I guess if they don’t work or are unemployed it doesn’t matter then.

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Yet again, the best way to prepare pupils for the real world is to teach them to obey sensible rules. Forcing them to obey stupid ones simply does not teach them anything, other than that many adults are not worthy of respect.

researchers3 · 07/01/2025 18:41

ShowJumpSally · 07/01/2025 16:00

My child's school has just moved into a new trust. Clearly it's one of those trusts as the latest email announces how children will be placed in internal exclusion or be suspended if they dare to wear a coat in the building or take their blazer off without asking permission.

Schools consistently moan about funding, there's a teaching retention crisis, teachers are overworked and leaving in their hoards, TAs are underpaid and in short supply, children's mental health is worse than ever, but somehow there's time and money to dish out internal exclusions if child gets hot and dares takes their blazer off without asking?

Aibu to say schools should try focussing their time, attention and money on the real issues instead of nonsense made up ones?
^

Couldn't agree more.

BlueSilverCats · 07/01/2025 18:42

It bothers me on principle. Mainly because we spend years in primary teaching kids to regulate themselves/their body temp and be more independent.

Taking off and putting on layers as needed, based on how they feel. Kids with 5 layers on moaning they have a headache and feel sick and they're hot. Take your jumper/fleece off!! Kids shivering in the cold , with their coat on the peg. And so on.

Then they get to secondary after hopefully learning those skills and nope you can't do that anymore.

40somethingme · 07/01/2025 18:43

kindlyensure · 07/01/2025 18:30

I dunno about the 'give them a petty rule' argument. Maybe the pupils are pushing back at petty rules because, well the rules ARE petty. Something they can control, like taking a blazer on or off, is almost asking to be messed around with, tbh. Why give them the opportunity? Why wind them up with pointless instructions?

DD was accused of having 'an attitude' by one teacher (who didn't teach her and was judging on looks) in Yr 11 because - literal quote - 'her blazer sleeves are always rolled up.'

Umm, the blazer she has grown out of, hence the short sleeves, and is not worth spending another 70 quid on because she is leaving?

I know it’s not the point of your post but I recently told my dd when she was accused of “having an attitude” to take it as a compliment as we need more women with “attitude”. The most successful women I met in my career have all had “attitude”.

Runnersandtoms · 07/01/2025 18:43

Grammarnut · 07/01/2025 17:44

My DD works in sales - is a highly paid middle manager - afaik dress code (when in the office) is skirt, blouse, jacket, high heels or dress and jacket and high heels. Ditto her (male) DP, smart trousers, shirt, tie, jacket - no high heels, though. I don't know where you think dress codes are more casual.

Edited
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Offices generally are more and more casual these days. My DH is a relatively senior civil servant and never wears a tie. Shirt and chinos is as smart as it gets. And everyone including the top bosses is on first name terms. People are still wearing ties and calling each other Mr and Mrs somebody in courts and schools and hardly anywhere else.

Re your daughter's office, I'd suggest that it is probably illegal now to specify different dress codes for women and men, and definitely illegal to require high heels or make up for women.

SockFluffInTheBath · 07/01/2025 18:43

It’s basic discipline and tidiness. In reality most teachers will say yes to a request to remove a blazer. Kids seeing their parents arguing about every mortal thing the school asks know they have carte blanche to do as they please. This is why most teachers leave. Most of us could stick the mismatch between hours and wages vs required qualifications if we weren’t literally banging our heads against the wall.

Livelovebehappy · 07/01/2025 18:43

Cariadm · 07/01/2025 18:31

Which patently doesn't work as you have greatly contradicted yourself by saying 'due probably to focusing on rebelling against school rules instead of learning'?! 🙄

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Erm, yep. Think i’ve been pretty clear there. Rather than, you know, just following rules, they’re focussing on rebelling against them, possibly encouraged by their parents looking at some comments on here. So you think there shouldn’t be any rules, so that children can focus on their learning instead? If there aren’t rules, do you think the sort of kids that would be rebelling against them, wouldn’t rebel about being asked to do homework too?

Chipsahoy · 07/01/2025 18:43

Thank goodness Scotland doesn’t have this nonsense.

AllProperTeaIsTheft · 07/01/2025 18:44

Sunnysidesoon · 07/01/2025 18:37

So you've got 1200 people all who can't operate as a cohesive community. That bodes well.

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What? No. We have an excellent teacher body and great students,who are all going about their business as usual, teaching and learning and generally getting on well, while also being frankly a bit pissed off at every new measure the Head introduces. It's a wildly over-subscribed school that has always got great results and been popular with parents (who also don't like the new measures). My point was that these kinds of strict academy attitudes over minor things are not necessarily helpful and can actually undermine relationships and attitudes to school. Hopefully my school will weather the storm though.

Phthia · 07/01/2025 18:44

Chef64 · 07/01/2025 17:40

It was the same when I was at school. We all grew up fine.

Every single one of you grew up fine? You still know all your contemporaries and you know exactly what happened to them after they left school, and none of them have every had any problems whatsoever?

I don't believe you ...

itsalwaysthesame · 07/01/2025 18:44

I hate blazers, I really don't see the point of them in school at all, school uniform should be made for comfort and practicality. Same with ties, why a tie is needed in school I don't know. Shirt & jumper with trousers or skirt is fine, also PE kits are dreadful too.

Stricter rules about behaviour, values & morales are needed rather than if you have the top button up on your shirt.

Crapdoor · 07/01/2025 18:45

FixTheBone · 07/01/2025 16:14

I don't understand how you can have a uniform without rules enforcing its use....

If the kids can just do what they want it isn't a uniform, it's a suggestion, and you'll only be waiting a short time before some entitled brat realises this and starts openly disregarding uniform policy knowing there's no comeback.

Either no uniform, or strictly enforced. There can be no middle ground.

If rhe rules aren't sensible they are just asking for them to be broken. How can you expect anyone to learn and behave well if they are hot and uncomfortable? Do you like being too hot?

My dd's primary school specifies a grey pinafore or trousers, white top (t shirt) and a green jumper or blazer and of course the kids can remove them if they are hot. That's it. Girls can wear the trousers uniform and boys can wear the pinafore if they like. It's just all so drama free and sensible.

My school didn't stipulate a uniform neither in primary or in secondary but you wouldn't have noticed that in secondary as we had a non official uniform stipulated by the kids: levi's 501 and girls couldn't wear t shirts or trainers. If you broke those rules you were ostracised.

So I do believe in school uniforms for the benefit of children and their parents but they shouldn't just be a tool to show the school's power over the kids.