To think that Musk is now overstepping himself and the UK gvt should threaten action

[Bogginsthe3rd]

Musk has just posted this on twitter (among other unhinged tweets). To me this reads as a thinly veiled threat to democratically elected UK MPs and actually the UK government should consider sanctions to the US if he continues this attack when he enters the White House?

Starmer in conjunction with the CPS (not TV) damn autocorrect.

@Alexandra2001

"So you persisted saying it wasn't in the bill, despite knowing it was going to be put into law..."

Err I'm persisting because it wasn't in the Bill published in December 2024. You can check for yourself if you don't believe me:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/6769425bbe7b2c675de309bb/ChildrenssWellbeinganddSchoolsBilllPolicySummaryyNotes.pdf

The comment from Yvette Cooper about including criminal sanctions on professionals in any future legislation was only made yesterday and that was only because of the publicity and pressure generated by Musk's posts.

In short there is no misinformation on my part - the Bill of December 2024 does not include any of the recommendations from the Jay Report, something Prof Jay has said herself and given that she ran the inquiry I think it's safe to say her opinion carries more weight than either yours or mine.

@CovenOfCheeses

This is a quote today from Professor Jay who led the inquiry:

"I have heard very little in the last few days about the appalling and lifelong effects that child sexual abuse can have on people.

I am pleased that the subject matter and the inquiry recommendations are finally getting the attention they deserve but this is definitely not the way I would have chosen for it to happen, but it has had the effect of moving on the agenda."

So Prof Jay confirms that the publicity on this awful child sex abuse by Musk has had the effect of moving up the political agenda the implementation of the inquiry recommendations.

Would you also label Prof Jay as an internet troll or football hooligan? Or as Starmer said "far right"?

The man in the Times headline (Fabian Henry) was sentenced to 12 years imprisonment in 2013 for raping a 17 year old girl and abducting/assaulting a 15 year old girl. It was reported elsewhere that when he abducted the 15 year old he tied her legs together and drove her off in his car. Henry was on the deportation flight in 2020 that Starmer and other MPs campaigned to stop - what do you 'particularly like' about that?

EmmaMaria
NOT ONE OF THEM WAS A RAPIST

Fabian Henry was convicted of rape in 2013.

@Clavinova could you just clarify who was responsible for Henry Fabian not being deported in 2020 when there was a Conservative Government? I know that a group of Labour MPs wrote a letter raising concerns about some of the 2020 deportations but that is different from saying that Kier Starmer specifically campaigned for Henry Fabian not to be deported.

Keir Starmer blaming the Conservative government here of course - but I see that he doesn't challenge the 'campaigned' label from the question put to him;

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/politics/21810234/keir-starmer-refuses-to-apologise/

Presumably you think Starmer should have acted sooner with regards to grooming gangs as he served as Director of Public Prosecutions and head of the CPS from November 2008?

@Clavinova I am not sure what you mean by Starmer blaming the Conservative Government. The 2020 deportations were massively contentious, as I'm sure you will remember. Author Bernardine Evaristo, the model Naomi Campbell, historian David Olusoga not to mention a number of NGOs, dozens of solicitors and barristers, including 11 Queens Counsels, signed a letter saying the deportation flight was unlawful, unjust and racist. A number of Labour MPs also sent and signed a letter to the Home Secretary. However, none of that means that any of them campaigned for a convicted rapist not to be deported.

I've already commented earlier on in the thread about Starmer's role at the CPS and the grooming cases. How is that connected with the 2020 deportations?

MargoLivebetter
I am not sure what you mean by Starmer blaming the Conservative Government.

From my link -
"You can't blame the opposition for the government's failures."

none of that means that any of them campaigned for a convicted rapist not to be deported

Alas, Starmer didn't challenge the idea that he 'campaigned' in his answer to the journalist.

I've already commented earlier on in the thread about Starmer's role at the CPS and the grooming cases. How is that connected with the 2020 deportations?

You asked me who was responsible for Fabian Henry not being deported when it was a Conservative government. I was making a comparison about responsibility. As head of the CPS from 2008, Starmer has to take some responsibility for CPS failures during that time.

Who was in power during the time that deportation did not happen?

@Clavinova you seem to be conflating various issues.

I think all those who campaigned for those that they believe to have been victims of modern slavery and were on board the 2020 deportation flight will probably stand by their campaign. QCs (or KCs as they are now) are unlikely to put their neck on the line and campaign on something unless they genuinely believe it is illegal.

The grooming scandals starts its criminal journey in 2001. There are so many failures at so many levels from the grass roots upwards that it is hard to blame any one single person. However, if you are going to point the finger at Kier Starmer, I guess you are also pointing the finger at the previous Director General of the CPS, Ken Macdonald 2003-2008, particularly given that there were no convictions prior to 2010?

Just heard an interview with Andrew Norfolk , the Times reporter who broke the story about the Rotherham grooming gangs.
He credits Kier Starmer with making it easier to prosecute these men. And he is disgusted by Musk's comments. Norfolk has been working on this since 2011 and says these girls are being exploited all over again by politicians jumping on the bandwagon. Survivors of abuse in Telford have written supporting Jess Phillips. Nobody is listening to them of course. ' Flood the zone with shit ' is Steve Bannon's tactic. Alas it often works. But this time have the liars over reached themselves?

Austerity has also been a factor in trails not coming forward.

And barristers not being available for trials

Apologies if this has already been posted.

MargoLivebetter
you seem to be conflating various issues

I don't believe I was - I was making a comparison about responsibility. However, I see that Priti Patel accused Labour politicians and celebrities of conflating issues;

‘To see ill-informed Labour politicians and do-gooding celebrities attempting to conflate the victims of Windrush with these vile criminals set for deportation is not only misjudged and upsetting but deeply offensive.’

However, if you are going to point the finger at Kier Starmer, I guess you are also pointing the finger at the previous Director General of the CPS, Ken Macdonald 2003-2008

As head of the CPS during that time he obviously has to shoulder some responsibility.

It's Keir Starmer by the way.

Particularly for barristers on the RASSO lists (Rape And Serious Sexual Offences). Legal aid rates dropped in the 1990s in actual pound terms, and have fallen far, far behind inflation since then. Payment delays are ever longer - you can't even claim for prosecution or legal aid defence fees until after the trial and any sentencing proceedings. One junior criminal barrister I know recently got paid £100 (plus VAT!) for a hearing she did in 2020, because the case got delayed for so long. The hours are horrific, the work incredibly stressful and difficult to deal with, and the pay appalling. The link between actual pay and the amount of work done on a particular item or case is tenuous, too.

Is this a different letter?

https://skwawkbox.org/2020/12/01/the-13-labour-front-benchers-including-starmer-who-did-not-sign-letter-to-patel-demanding-cancellation-of-windrush-deportation-flight/

Yes, lots of daily mail headlines about fat cat barristers (giving the income of commercial QCs) meant so many were thrilled to see funding and rated for legal aid cut but the consequences for justice are dire.

It takes a phenomenally civic minded barrister to still work on criminal trials (legal aid, prosecution or indeed as a judge) because the salary is a fraction of what they could earn in any other field. I know quite a few quite elderly barristers still working in this field just to stop the system falling apart even though they barely earn their train fare for doing so

I don't know - but if Keir Starmer has confessed to something he wasn't involved in then he's a fool.

I can't read the Times article you linked, that's why I asked. It is a different letter then.

I did find this more recent article
https://news.sky.com/story/the-windrush-backstory-to-starmers-campaign-to-let-foreign-criminals-stay-13271550

The decision to grant some people a reprieve was ultimately made by the courts.

I work in an area of law which is better paid than crime (not a high bar....) but is still lower than most areas. I did quite a lot of crime when I was junior, but the pay is now so rubbish for such demanding and difficult work that I've done none for a decade.

Someone’s shining a light on our corrupt af lethargic government. Good.

Absolutely spot on.

Unless there was a supplementary page of signatures - or Starmer wanted the left-wing of his party to think he had signed the letter so he played along with it.

Ridiculous comment so far removed from truth it's pathetic.