To think it's a bit unfair to expect staff to use leave

[Shrunkenwasps]

I've been in a new role for around 6 weeks, dislike it for a number of reasons so looking to leave atm.
The training is 9 months which is bad enough, I could understand if it were an apprenticeship or something I were studying for but I really don't see this as necessary.

When I started our manager was saying to us 'Oooh get your Christmas leave booked in now, take as much as you want!' I get 26 days after 2 years , plus bank holidays and the privilege day, so it's not bad really, but I didn't need to use 2 weeks over Christmas.

There hasn't been any work between 20th December and 7th January, and our office is only closed on 25th, 26th and 1st January.
Since 20th December I've only done the odd bit of online learning, there is honestly nothing to do. It might sound great but now I see why they were trying to get us to take our leave over Christmas.
I know I sound stubborn but I also think 9 months of training for a role paying under 30k is ridiculous. Anyway I made a mistake coming here. Does anyone else's work try to pressure them/expect them to use leave during quiet periods?

HMRC services are so bad because of the decade of austerity, lack of investments in outdated systems, knowledge drain as experienced staff left for higher salaries in the private sector or retired, and were replaced with untrained graduates because they're cheap.

The majority of civil servants are hard working and dedicated, they will bend over backwards to do their best for the public.

I'm not there anymore, but between 2012 and 2018, a caseload for a compliance caseworker went from circa 25 to 50 as the team shrank and we got no replacements. It wasn't possible to maintain the same level of service on twice the workload.

Doesn’t sound like you were pressured to take leave, sounds like it was suggested to put your leave in if you wanted it, which you didn’t so you’re at work complaining about having not a lot to do. Was it not possible to carry on with the online learning? Sounds like you don’t like the job and are looking for reasons to complain about it

26 days + BH is a decent amount of annual leave. A lot of people get much less.

And yet this person has nothing to do.

Because she’s not trained yet and most of her supervisors will be off over Christmas. They’re not going to run training courses on the 30th of Dec when only one person is in. There’s a limit to how much you can set a new person to do when no one is around to keep an eye on them. There are also probably a lot less calls from the public over Christmas because most folk will assume there’s no point in ringing HMRC at that time.

They've been in the department a few weeks and are untrained, would you propose they just let them loose on the phones or perhaps they can fire out a load of written correspondence to technical queries?

Maybe they can redesign the outdated IT systems for all staff in those days over Christmas?

Or, perhaps as their supervisor suggested, it was a good natural pause in their training schedule to take some leave.

To answer your question, every single building company.

Of course they are going to want employees to take their leave when it is quiet and there is nothing to do! Do you understand the concept of work?

What's wrong with 9 months training? Sounds good to me. Can learn lots! Do you not want to br trained??

In HMRC there is quite literally endless learning material (including interactive stuff, not just reading manuals). I think it is depressing to just sit like a vegetable waiting for someone to instruct you in the technical specialist role you just accepted for taxpayer cash.

Or if the 30k is so risible maybe they could use their unspecified valuable skills to earn six figures in the City as they surely deserve.

Not civil service but I had a bunch of trainees start 6 ish weeks ago. I encouraged them to use their leave between Christmas and New Year. Only 4 days or so but it makes sense to have as many in together/out together if you are running a training programme. Helped a bit by our leave year finishes on 31/12.
I've not insisted though and there have been early finishes for those who have "come in".

You're moaning for the sake of it, I think.
You don't want to stay and that's absolutely fine. But I'd look for something now, as you're wasting their time.

HMRC are experiencing delays because of industrial action, currently.

I need to see if there are local hmrc jobs. I'd love to put my feet up. I'm burnt out in my current cs job

Husband's work always insisted on several days of leave being taken between Christmas and New Year as the place shut down. It's very normal. As for me, spent my life in teaching so absolutely no choice in when to take leave.

Dh work shuts 25-1 their leave is automatically deducted (and he only gets 4 weeks plus bank hols)

My work also shuts the same, I'm part time so I usually lose 1 days holiday.

Dh work closes from Xmas eve until new year. He has to use holidays

I was once worked as a temporary PA in the civil service, for a manager in social care. I had nothing to do. As in - I opened a few envelopes in the morning and took post to her office ( I was in an office on my own), forwarded some emails and took a couple of phone messages.

It was so boring it was unreal. When I asked someone why she had a PA, I was told “There are 37 hours in the budget and if she doesn’t use them then she won’t get them next year”… they were also paying over the odds as I was there through an agency.

This was over ten years ago, no idea if it’s the same now but I’m not surprised that councils are going bankrupt if they all have that approach! It seemed to be accepted as a normal way to handle a budget and staffing levels.

I’m with HMRC too and guess you’re in CTU

Once you get assigned to your actual role it’ll be a lot more interesting but I appreciate the 9 months training is tedious

According to the IFS, between 2010 and 2020 the government cut 40% of funding to local authorities (who are largely responsible for social care). This is despite an aging population and the increase in demand for services that this brings.

Head count was reduced by a third, nearly a million civil servants, during that time.

Front line services are now compromised, it's one of the factors crippling the NHS because patients can't be safely released into the community.

So I'd say no, your anecdote from over a decade ago where someone had a secretary they didn't need isn't relevant anymore.

Don't worry OP once you're in an actual role, you'll have plenty of work to do assuming you are in CTU and training in tax, which btw definitely warrants 9 months of training.
If you're in HMRC, then you'll have access to kallidus, which is literally thousands of hours worth of training courses.
If you're training to be a tax officer, even if you don't have particular courses on your learning plan, there is so much available on kallidus you could fill your time with to give you wider knowledge.
Yes it may be a bit boring, but being paid to do online learning on quite days isn't exactly stressful.
And I'm not sure where you think pizzas and chocolate would come from. The CS departments I've worked in haven't had budgets for that kind of thing for a long time, you get fuck all at Christmas because it's tax payers money. If you've been bought chocolates etc in the past there's a very good chance it's a manager doing it out of their own pocket.

I dont think the manager did anything wrong, it makes sense to encourage ppl to take their leave and like said, in many places leave is forced at quiet times. Luckily as a CS with very good benefits and unionisation you're unlikely to ever be in that situation.

So when you complain about no chocolates or pizza you know someone has to pay for this for you, it isn’t on the company dime?

you could have done more online learning but you didn’t bother. No one forced you to take leave, just suggested you do?

I think you need to give your head a wobble.

I work in social care. Our budget gap this year was nearly £50 million. That’s for one city alone. Any extra secretaries went a long time ago and we’re now cutting frontline services, which are desperately needed to keep people out of hospital. Anyone still with their heads up their arses about so-called waste and inefficiency in the public sector needs to educate themselves. BTW even if cutting one secretary saved £50k, which it wouldn’t, you’re looking for a thousand times £50k. Every year with no end in sight.

Most companies want people to take leave when it’s quiet, it’s common sense as when it’s busy you won’t have to cover.

I also think lots of people would want to take leave over Christmas, there’s always threads about not getting to take time off.
Plus you’re not being forced to.

Personally, I’d love a’quiet’ time where I could take a lot of leave as I could go on a big trip (i have to get extra approval for over 2 weeks) and I’d not return to a shitshow.

Many companies dictate when you have to use most of your annual leave and employees are only allowed to choose about 14 days with the other days being selected by their company. It's perfectly legal too. Being told to take as much leave as you like over Xmas is not being pressured to take it then.