To think it's a bit unfair to expect staff to use leave

[Shrunkenwasps]

I've been in a new role for around 6 weeks, dislike it for a number of reasons so looking to leave atm.
The training is 9 months which is bad enough, I could understand if it were an apprenticeship or something I were studying for but I really don't see this as necessary.

When I started our manager was saying to us 'Oooh get your Christmas leave booked in now, take as much as you want!' I get 26 days after 2 years , plus bank holidays and the privilege day, so it's not bad really, but I didn't need to use 2 weeks over Christmas.

There hasn't been any work between 20th December and 7th January, and our office is only closed on 25th, 26th and 1st January.
Since 20th December I've only done the odd bit of online learning, there is honestly nothing to do. It might sound great but now I see why they were trying to get us to take our leave over Christmas.
I know I sound stubborn but I also think 9 months of training for a role paying under 30k is ridiculous. Anyway I made a mistake coming here. Does anyone else's work try to pressure them/expect them to use leave during quiet periods?

im public sector and the point of everyone taking a long break over Xmas is that a) you effectively plan for shutdown for that period and b) everyone returns on the same footing, not to 1000 emails that necessitate you doing the two weeks work you’re missed along side your usual work. It’s considered good for everyone to take the same time off so it’s a proper break. No one is worrying about what is happening in their absence or what horror they will return to.

Most training programmes wouldn’t be running over Christmas so don’t really understand your gripe!

And what did they say when you said you had nothing to do?

So they suggested you take some time off over Christmas, as you're 6 weeks into a 9 month training program (and presumably aren't autonomous yet) but you didn't.. and you're annoyed that you got paid to do very little?

I'm very familiar with these training packages, is there a reason you didn't start doing the reading for your next module?

Doesn’t sound so bad to me, but then I don’t get to choose my holidays at my job. I’m not a teacher but we’re often given blocks of 3-4 weeks in the summer - until we’re not. You could well be looking at a month off in May but no holiday entitlement for the rest of the year.

However, if the job doesn’t work for you, that’s also fine.

So you've been paid to sit there doing nothing and you're complaining about it?!?

You might need to change your expectations if you want to last longer than a few weeks in any job.

All civil service depts are different. In mine we almost fight to the death to get any time off over Christmas beyond the bank holidays and the one day office closure day.

I have to take my leave over Xmas as it’s closed and it annoys me because although I’m very fortunate to have Xmas day off, I would actually rather have more time off during the warmer months.

Over half of my leave is already designated, meaning I have less than 2 weeks to choose when I actually want to be off and most of this is taken up with DCs school activities or appointments.

Unless you get paid less, I don’t see the issue with the 9 months training.
I think companies don’t spend enough time training their staff.

They haven’t forced you to tale anything. You are being paid. They haven’t planned anything, but perhaps there’s nothing to plan at the moment. I can’t see the problem. 🤷‍♀️

£30k for nearly a year of training sounds like a complete doss and very easy money… I don’t think I’d be complaining

No free chocolate, as far as I can see. A good enough reason to seek alternate employment these days.

@Shrunkenwasps
This is pretty much standard under the Civil Service. Some businesses and also some government sites do actually have compulsory leave periods which you have to keep some of your annual leave allowance for
(In government this require union consultation and justification as to why the site must close - and nowadays why work could not be done from home)

Historically we had 2 1/2 privilege days, one of which was an extra day across the Christmas period - these were removed and only one day remains
(I still have them due to the length I’ve been in as the 1 1/2 days removed were converted to annual leave, but if I have any contract change then I’ll lose them)

On my site, MoD Army, we have a minimum service period aimed at encouraging a long leave period, so I have been off from 16th December and I go back on Monday 6th January. My manager is preserving their leave so stayed on for the week of the 16th (They intended to work up to at least the Wednesday depending on how things were)

Our main role responds to people’s needs, so we expect quiet periods to be quiet, but we can also do our own things

You should be in the situation that you have the option to work during the Christmas period and get provided with suitable work. As you’re new in role then that will affect your ability to self govern some work.

Mandatory training as mentioned by others is the obvious thing - but can certainly get tedious and doing everything at once does mean the annual/bi annual/tri annual training then has to be refreshed all at one - I prefer to stagger mine

Other training and other activities (such as ‘one big thing’ mentioned above is useful for times such as these) and theres a wealth of opportunities to look out for

As you have a structured 9 month training for your role / department things will be different for you next Christmas and your experience this year is likely to inform your choices - you will most likely be in a better position to plan for working across Christmas if that remains the preferred option to keep your leave for when you want it

If you are CS then they would follow a correct process if they wanted you to take leave.

The person advising you to book Christmas will just have been friendly. Most CS like to take a longer break at Christmas.

The correct process is that you would be given more than statutory notice that the office will be closed on X dates and this will be deducted from your leave allowance. This is permitted under the Working Time Regulations.

Many departments set out in the staff hand book that the office will be closed on 25 & 26 Dec plus one other day either the 24th or 27th depending on when Christmas falls.

WRT what work usually it is mandatory training, general housekeeping plus any work you have.

I thought it was quite common also for people to part of their have between Christmas and new year. I also have to take holiday for Bank holidays.

You need to do 9 months of training because the work is highly specialist and the general public needs to be able to rely on you knowing what you're talking about!!! Did you think you'd just walk in off the street and start bashing out case decisions?

Christmas is quiet because most people have families and need time off.

Legally your employer can tell you when to take leave, they could say take January off then no more leave this year, in reality if they do that then staff will leave, but yes rejecting leave when you're busy (lots of places say no leave will be authorised before Christmas) is quite normal, and encoraging it in the summer likewise. I am quite free and easy about when staff take leave but if I have too many off at once it impacts us badly. It's something I need to work through as an employer.

Yabu
You have the right to a set minimum of leave per year but you are not actually entitled to take it whenever you want. If your employers didn't force you to take a week of your AL at Christmas then you are luckier than many. Some employers will 100% dictate the dates of all AL with no flexibility. You come across as very entitled.

"Take as much as you want" isn't pressuring you to take leave, it's telling you that it will be granted without question. You may find that at other times of year, they are reluctant to have too many people on leave at once, or will need at least person in a particular role in the whole time, and limit leave requests.

26 days + bh+ a privilege day (don't know what that is) is not bad at all.

Plenty of places force staff to take the 3 days between Christmas and NY off due to the office being closed.

There are still factories and manufacturing companies that close for "factory fortnight" in July and over Christmas etc

I've worked in places where staff are encouraged (but it isn't compulsory) to take time off when it is expected to be less busy.

And if they really wanted, an employer could force you to take annual leave, as long as they give you the correct notice.

My dh tried to book the week off but was told absolutely not.
He went in and it was so quiet they said you can go home and take it as annual leave! He said nah l'll stay thanks. Cheeky fuckers

If you’ve only been there for 6 weeks it’s unlikely you will have accumulated enough leave to take two weeks over Xmas. I mean if you did take it then left in a month you would owe them money for taking leave that you haven’t worked up.

This thread has actually been stressing me out. No wonder HMRC services are so bad when staff think they're too good to learn the (complicated) ropes.

It sounded like your manager was saying you would be able to take the two weeks off over Xmas without a problem, not that you had to. They were being nice.

My workplace (a public body) does not close over Christmas but it is very quiet and HR often put out messages in November encouraging people to take enough time off, it is seen as a good time for people to rest and recharge at the end of the year.

Years ago I worked for a local authority service that closed between Chrisrmas and New Year so you had to take 27 Dec - 2 Jan off as leave. If you really didn't want to they could find you alternative work in a different department that did not close.

They might have encouraged you to take time off during a quiet period but it doesn’t sound like you did so the pressure can’t be that bad. It is draining going into work and having nothing to do though, so I do sympathise.

This person could spend the time learning our massive tax code, to be fair.