To be horrified at how much worse the "grooming gangs" actually were than I thought

[OneAmberFinch]

There are several other threads about Elon Musk, Labour, Jess Phillips, etc.

I don't want to discuss them in this thread. The other threads keep getting derailed and I just want a place to discuss how absolutely horrifying the new details that emerged this week are.

I knew that there were "grooming gangs" who would entice girls in care or from broken homes to be their "boyfriends" by giving them cigarettes and vapes, for example.

I didn't know that girls as young as 11 were being brutally tortured and raped, that people had been killed over it, including one policeman who arranged for some of the rapists to get off, houses burnt down. I didn't know the details of the violent gang rapes which I won't repeat here but you can find on X.

I'm just genuinely shocked and horrified.

Some of the court transcripts circulating are from 2013. How did I not know?

Honestly I'm far right and proud at this point 💪🏻 some people act like being far right is worse than what these men did to those girls. The world is fucked up

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/edl-english-defence-league-leigh-mcmillan-jailed-paedophile-old-bailey-a8231231.html

Yup, also a scumbag child rapist, do you honestly think women who are upset and angry about the grooming gang cases are fine with white child rapists?

I note that he was sentenced to 17 years in jail, and I haven't seen anything about him being released. Rightly so.

"But Tommy Robinson!" has expired as a slanderous attack. I have nothing to do with him. Stop trying to create the association in people's minds that anyone who cares about the rape of four-year-old girls must be a criminal thug, muddying the waters and making people decide the issue is too toxic to look into.

how we can support women and girls who are at the bottom of society and increase their self-worth and how we can fix a system that fails these women and girls to succumb to exploitation by men

Not sure if you meant it but that's victim blaming. They were not abused because of their lack of self worth or because they 'succumbed'. Many were targeted due to vulnerabilities of being in care or in non functioning families, but the blame all lies with the men who targeted them and the system which failed to safeguard them. This was not a fault with the girls who were abused.

The only good thing to come out of this awfulness that The Son of a Toolmaker and his chums have jumped the shark with the Far Right insult.

They've thrown it around like confetti towards anyone who has disagreed with their bizarre views. People were so worried about being called it-in much the same way that people cower in the fear of being called racist for things that are not racist-that they backed down.

Now, though it seems they have used it just once too often in branding those who want to have a judge led inquiry into the Pakistani Rape Gangs; those who want to know about the failings of those in authority including our excuse for a PM and those who want to know why the few rapists who were sent to prison have not been deported but are back living amongst their victims.

people are open mouthed at the fool branding those who want those things as Far Right and disgusted that Maggie Oliver-and others- have been described as jumping on the Far Right bandwagon. Maggie Oliver to whom we owe gratitude!

Luckily, the man is a fool and hasn't realised that continually using a hollow meaningless insult will eventually rob it of its power. People who are not Far Left as he is or Centre Left as Tony Blair is are not Far Right.

Every time you hear this term used-and you will hear it even more- ask yourself who is using it, who are they describing and what they hope to achieve by describing them thus and then, in most cases, laugh and shrug it off-it will castrate the term of its power to shame.

Most people are not Far Right but to listen to these sneering superior idiots, you could not be blamed for thinking most of the UK is Far Right. Tis Bollocks!

You miss the part where I acknowledge there are of course sick fucks of all different colours and creeds?
You seem desperate to deflect from the fact almost all the men in these rape gangs were from Pakistan.
Would you hop on a thread about George Floyd and start saying "there's white men that have been killed by black police men too"? No you wouldn't. In fact you'd probably be the first to call out anyone that did that

do you honestly think women who are upset and angry about the grooming gang cases are fine with white child rapists?

Yes, I think a section of the left do genuinely think that. That this is all just racists taking an opportunity to be racist. And that's partly how we got where we are now, people in power saw racism in everything and it blinded them to what was happening (or they deliberately chose not to see).

I am sorry but this is exactly the same mindset that allowed the ethnicity of the rapists to become a hindrance to their prosecution.

There ABSOLUTELY needs to be a discussion about why some sections of the population are more at risk of being targeted for rape, just as there needs to be a discussion about why some sections of the population are more likely to rape.

This is a perfect example of how easy it is to avoid asking the difficult questions because of wanting to be doing the Right Thing.

You do know there has already been an enquiry with many recommendations.
The Tories did not carry out the recommendations. Now they are covering their backs. Pathetic.

No.

In my post I agreed that many of the girls were targeted due to vulnerabilities they had e.g. being in care. What you said was that we need to raise the girls' self worth - I'm in favour of raising girls' self worth, of course - but you said 'so they don't succumb to exploitation' - that's victim blaming.

The girls self worth isn't the problem or the cause in itself, the fact that they were vulnerable and not safeguarded was the problem. The girls should have had a safety net so even if they had low self worth they were still safe. The girls who were targeted did not 'succumb', can't you see that places the blame on the victim? We can discuss the fact that they were more at risk without placing the responsibility for that on the girls.

None of the girls who were abused were to blame in any way for their abuse. The authorities acting as if they were, because they were adultified, or seen as part of the underclass, or out of control, or mouthy, or grubby little slappers, is partly how we got here.

The girls were not responsible for their abuse and are not to blame for their abuse.

I think the rapists are disgustingly and the full weight of the law brought upon them. I am not victim blaming when I suggest the causes and environment that allows rapists access to victims should be eradicated.

I also think it is unhelpful to obstruct the government in going about implementing policy that will help the victims of these crimes and the circumstance in which these crimes arise.

That is utterly depraved.

The establishment in this country needs to be removed. It is rotten to the core.

As for the people on here defending the government despite its culpability in covering up what can only be described as crimes against humanity - words fail me.

No ‘far right’ government could be worse than this.

I really don't mean this to be antagonistic. There are many people in the Conservative party membership who are also frustrated about the lack of action by their own party. There are many people in the Labour party membership who want another inquiry.

If there is a party-political angle to this story, it's not about either the Tories or Labour, it's about Reform.

And I think there should be less noise in either direction about inquiries and more about the specific measures, starting with the ones announced by Yvette Cooper which I think are good, but this should be considered a starting set.

The girls should have had a safety net so even if they had low self worth they were still safe.

Well yes. They are vulnerable to exploitation, aren't they? Stop with the right word policing. It is the whole cause of what happened here.

The girls were not responsible for their abuse and are not to blame for their abuse.

Straw man argument. No-one is saying they are responsible or to blame. No-one AT ALL. All you do with this rhetoric is shut down an admittedly deeply unpleasant conversation that nevertheless needs to be had. Stop bringing victim blaming into it where none has happened. It is just nonsense, same as claiming racial discrimination when there is in fact a racial/cultural element at play.

Well I'm sorry if I misunderstood, when you said

how we can support women and girls who are at the bottom of society and increase their self-worth and how we can fix a system that fails these women and girls to succumb to exploitation by men

I read that as you putting blame on the girls for their lack of self worth and for 'falling for' abuse. If that's not what you meant then we're not disagreeing.

He also killed someone and was convicted of dangerous driving.

Various support for terrorism.

And also allegedly used his position in the house of Lords to have sex with vulnerable women

He was a high profile man in Rotherham and served on the council and as a magistrate, questions need to be asked if he was involved in any alleged coverup.

Basically an all round piece of shit.

You say its not party political [Tory/ Labour]. What do you think of Jendricks' comments today.

An absolute disgrace.

I weep when such an idiot/opportunist shadows on of the Great Offices of State.

1. I think the Tories are divided on immigration and it cannot be resolved without a schism - I don't think Jenrick represents the party but is advocating for his preferred direction for the party at a point of crossroads for them. There are many in both the Tories and Reform who believe Jenrick should defect. This is what I mean by not party political.

2. My personal view is that we should significantly restrict immigration and we should be significantly more thoughtful about cultural similarity and assimilation potential when assessing any immigration we do keep. With the best will in the world, all the inquiries into safeguarding and reporting will be for naught if we continue with mass immigration from conservative, patriarchal societies, and grappling with that is key to addressing this long-term. In this respect I agree with Jenrick.

3. I don't believe it's fair for the Conservative party to attack Labour on this specific issue when Labour have only been in power for 6 months and individuals including Starmer and Phillips HAVE been earnestly trying to address this specific scandal over the years - and by his own standard, the Tories massively increased immigration from the same country he points out as problematic.

From personal experience, and speaking as an immigrant myself, I know that cultures are not all created equal. Anyone who has ever complained about gun laws in America or apartheid in South Africa cannot make this claim with any intellectual honesty. I like living in a country with strong protections for the rights of women and girls.

I'm writing this in good faith, not as an attack on anyone - I wanted to take the time to outline my personal position.

It's worth listening to the latest 2 episodes of the newsagents podcast on this issue - this evening Emily Maitliss interviewed The Times journalist who broke the story a decade ago

This is terrifying

I agree with you

You'e right.
However, when those in power already know the answer to the question that must be asked, you can bet your bottom dollar it will never be asked

It is very difficult to find information on why he was elevated to the Lords in 1998. I suppose he must have just been a really really hard-working councillor. It's wonderful that we have such community-minded people.