To be horrified at how much worse the "grooming gangs" actually were than I thought

[OneAmberFinch]

There are several other threads about Elon Musk, Labour, Jess Phillips, etc.

I don't want to discuss them in this thread. The other threads keep getting derailed and I just want a place to discuss how absolutely horrifying the new details that emerged this week are.

I knew that there were "grooming gangs" who would entice girls in care or from broken homes to be their "boyfriends" by giving them cigarettes and vapes, for example.

I didn't know that girls as young as 11 were being brutally tortured and raped, that people had been killed over it, including one policeman who arranged for some of the rapists to get off, houses burnt down. I didn't know the details of the violent gang rapes which I won't repeat here but you can find on X.

I'm just genuinely shocked and horrified.

Some of the court transcripts circulating are from 2013. How did I not know?

@Iwanttoliveonamountain

The closest friend I had was a work colleague and I didn't know she was Muslim until quite a few months down the line.

She had to run away and hide from her family because she fell in love with a white boy. She said it wasn't even her parents who were so outraged it was her uncle a hard line Islamist

I have had other acquainted at school sweet girls but they were not allowed to socialise out of school with us.

Overall I wouldn't dare to question or ask anyone who follows islam about it because it's scary!

I'm fearful to do so

I liked Yvette Cooper's speech but I am wondering if Kier just isn't either a bit tunnel vision or brainwashed?

... yeah apart from he never actually said that did he, as well you know.

He was referring to the attacks made by Musk which then Badenoch Philp etc jump on...... he specifically said he wanted to engage with people who wanted another inquiry, explaining why he thinks there shouldn't be one.

What i have seen in these various threads though is the truth doesn't matter at all, its about attacking certain politicians, regardless of the facts.... Philp did it again today in the commons.

You re doing it now...

Was that actually what he said?

He was going for Badenoch and her acolytes who, after doing nothing while in government, seem to think political gain from jumping on Musk's bandwagon is more important than supporting our own government.

Her approach and even more so that of Jenrick beggar belief.

This is just like the gender issue, the gentry left just assume anyone who disagrees with them is a mindless gullible bigot. What are the chances that a load of mostly leftish, mostly educated, mostly mothers have suddenly decided to throw their lot in with the far right? Isn’t it a bit more likely that rather than us all suddenly deciding to be ignorant racists, we might just have a point. No, it can’t be that, we must all just be stupid credulous gammon doing what Elon Musk tells us.

it really shows you the contempt they have for others, and their inability to see nuance, that they truly believe that people who don’t think what they think are stupid.

I attach a report from the Telegraph recording his words in Parliament. He's suggesting that calling for an enquiry is jumping on the bandwagon of the far right. It doesn't matter who is doing the jumping. Its the fact that he defines calling for an enquiry as a far-right bandwagon.

I know it's shameful and his supporters will want to say he didn't really mean it but he said it. He's too quick to throw around the term "far right" that Keir Starmer. Its clearly become a little to easy for him to accuse people of it and he needs to stop. It's revealing to much of what he clearly thinks of people.

He may well backtrack now and try and rephrase that. It seems sensible given the reaction of most right thinking people. Not far right just to clarify. Just right.

They cant.see past Elon Musk to the victims.

Do you think there should be a national enquiry?

If you don't, do you think people who do are members of the far right? If so, why?

Speaking for myself no. We've had multiple inquiries into what happened in parts of the country. Professor Jay reported on wider national issues in 2022.

What would another inquiry, taking years and costing millions, tell us that we don't know already?

Musk, who kicked this off, is playing to the far right.

I'm not for a minute saying those who think further inquiries are far right. But be careful of whose tune you're dancing to.

There were enquiries in limited specific areas but nothing national to join the dots.

Many cities such as Rochdale, Rotherham or Oldham have not been investigated. Victims have not had their voices heard.

The enquiry in 2022 looked at organised networks of child sexual exploitation but not grooming gangs.

Police and mainly Labour council.cover-ups were not properly investigated.

Local enquiries cannot work. Oldham for example cannot investigate and punish itself.

The person responsible for the CPS dropping the prosecutions has not been held to account and is in fact now our prime minister.

This has been so well hidden by the MSM and not one single person in the country has found out about it only GBNews even mentioned it and this was only in passing

so well hidden by the MSM = I only get my news from Facebook and SM. Oh and occasionally the arse end of the Daily Mail.

It was WIDELY reported. Those of us who actually engage with MSM knew about this at the time.

not one single person in the country has found out about it only GBNews
Lol. Only someone who didn't actually read any newspapers and is now surprised could say this.

Slightly OT, but my eyes nearly fell out of my head when I read that comment of Starmer’s about what gets said on Twitter. 🙄

As if Labour hasn’t made an utter holy show of itself in recent years grovelling and fawning over the TRAs and going along with their misogynistic twaddle. All based on who shouts loudest on Twitter!

They’ve been making policy based on what’s shouted on Twitter for the best part of a decade.

You don't need to be rude. As per the OP, many people knew about it in a vague sanitised way, maybe thought it was on the lines of older teenagers being coerced into performing oral sex in return for alcohol and taxi rides. They are shocked at the scale of the abuse and the level of depravity inflicted on those girls, which wasn't so widely reported. Possibly that was partly as the details are too horrific for TV or print news that children might see, but still many people are feeling like they're only hearing the real story now. It doesn't mean they only get their news from Facebook.

The 'MSM' didn't hide anything. The cases were covered as/when they finished* the media circus moved on but the coverage at the time is still in their archives.

Sentencing remarks as delivered were published by the Judiciary and are available at the cost of a few mouse clicks.

*Because of the number of defendants some large groups of offenders had to be tried in smaller groups. So as to avoid publicity of the early cases affecting the later ones there were reporting restrictions.

Hide maybe not. But downplayed, certainly.

I've also known about how horrific it was for years but then I did look more into it years ago, I mean Tommy Robinson has been speaking about it for years but a lot of people didn't pay attention because being "racist" is apparently a worse sin than raping young girls. Not that Tommy was ever even racist seeing as Islam is a religion not a race.

Anyway my point is I'm also surprised at the amount of people saying they didn't know how bad it was or that they thought the girls were older and more like prostitutes. I think that speaks volumes for how it was reported I mean even the word "grooming gangs" waters it down they are rape and torture gangs. Look at how George Floyd was reported EVERYONE knew all about that and it was one adult male.

There needs to be a national campaign teaching the whole concept of Nuance to the masses.

The powers that be would rather protect those who rape children than be called racist.
That's the truth of it.

If a definition of Far Right is wanting to know how many of these Pakistani men convicted of being in a Rape Gang were deported then I'm proud to be Far Right.

If wanting to know why this the torments of these girls was and is allowed to go on by those in power to stop it is Far Right, then I'm proud to be Far Right

If not being frightened of being called racist when saying these Rape Gangs were mostly Pakistani men who traded on the fact that people were too worried of being called racist to stop them is Far Right, then I'm proud to be far Right.

Also, when did Far always been placed before Right, become a thing?

Why is there no right wing in politics any more-why is it always Far Right. I suppose they hope if they say it often enough, parrots will repeat it. Far Right! Far Right!

Decent people wanting an inquiry are NOT Far Right.

It was sarcasm. It was widely reported and well documented. There was a review and the Tory government did nothing about it. The Labour government have been in power for a short time and they have 14 years of issues with the NHS, social care, the economy, the productivity crisis, our trading relationships,internarional relations, infrastructural issues, the environment, immigration, underinvestment in utilities, transportation, education as well as many other things to resolve. Certain sections of the right wing media and an internet Troll have decided to bring this up to beat the government because their communication is poor. Starmer thinks by pressing ahead and quietly resolving issues will bring people on board, however he has to contend with the rabid media against him who will drag up and twist everything they can to throw him and the government under a bus. There are also people who will act on this misinformation. The media is acting really irresponsibly in this matter and not providing a fair and balanced review of labour’s time in government. This is partially to do with Labour’s lack of an adept communications director as well as the media moving further and further to the right.

I come from a small town in the North West where girls were beaten and abused by their boyfriends, father, step fathers, brothers, cousins and their mates. Drug abuse and glue sniffing was rife and women had little respect in society. Men habitually raped their partners, daughters, wives, girlfriends and it was a community in crisis and despair caused by the lack of opportunities. The girls ventured towards the bottom rungs in society because they had little self-respect and very few places to go or choices and they were rife for exploitation. They were exploited, abused and murdered generationally by white men. No one seemed to be concerned. Now that we have men from the lowest rung of society from another culture exploiting these girls, people seem to be taking an interest for political purposes. Not for the women but to have a go at the ‘others’ and to support a particular agenda to whip up the populace in a frenzy to exploit for their own means. What I am concerned about are the victims, how we can stop this happening again, how we can put things in place to stop exploitation of women, how we can provide care in a care system that does not provide care and love,how we can support women and girls who are at the bottom of society and increase their self-worth and how we can fix a system that fails these women and girls to succumb to exploitation by men, in a society that does not seem to value the voices of young working class women.

I wonder when Maggie Oliver will be given a Damehood?
Never, as Son of a Toolmaker has declared that she is just jumping on a bandwagon.
What a disgrace he is.

Meanwhile Lord Ahmed of Rotherham, although he no longer sits in the Lords after being convicted of attempting to rape a 4 YEAR OLD girl, with the only reason it wasn't just "rape" being that he physically couldn't insert his penis, still has his title because apparently it would be too much of a hassle to pass a 1-line bill in parliament.

He got 2 years in jail for this by the way. His older brothers claimed some mental illness excuse and got discharged despite the jury finding that they committed even more crimes.

Just another little anecdote for anyone who wants to say "what's the problem, the perpetrators were convicted".

Sentencing remarks: https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/R-v-Ahmed-sentencing-remarks-040222-1.pdf

That is horrifying. I will never understand the low sentences. Surely raping or making every attempt to rape a child that young should be a life sentence?

Yeah I was aware you were being sarcastic towards those that are saying they had no idea how bad this was until recently. That was kinda my point. It obviously wasn't that widely reported if all these people on this thread are claiming they didn't know how bad it was. I mean it was reported but not as widely as it should of been compare it to something like George Floyd just one adult man on the other side of the Atlantic ocean that was in the news for months everyone knew about it.

Anyway you seem kinda obsessed with politics and labour Vs conservatives bs, these rape gangs have been going on for decades and both main parties failed these girls this is part of the reason other parties like reform are becoming more popular.

Plus again another person deflecting by bringing up the "white men can be assholes too" chestnut yes we know there's sick fucks of all colours and creed. The town I grew up in had a large influx of Pakistani immigrants and as a women I could no longer go out alone at certain times had to move away in the end because it wasn't a safe place to raise my kids.

I suppose your trying to argue all cultures are the same but do you even have any idea what it's like being a women in Pakistan? Thats if you're even being honest care to name this town where it was apparently super common for white men to rape their own daughters?