Elon Musk and Racism

[raincoatwarmcoatlongcoat]

Inspired by the other long running thread. I keep reading that he tweets and retweets racist comments. Can anyone link any or all of them please? I see tweets over illegal immigration, as opposed to immigration, but not racist?

So instead of opinions please can people post the actual words used or retweeted? Or anything he said in interviews, word for word?

Thanks!

So basically less than 1.5% of the UK population want Sharia law in place. On the other hand, 54% of the population are in favour of the death penalty, Tbh, I know which state I'd be more concerned about, and it's not suddenly finding myself subject to Sharia law in the UK. Your ridiculous scaremongering is doing you no favours.

Given the statistics can you tell me my worries were unfounded?

because only 25% of a minority support it 🤷🏻‍♀️. Nothing is ever going to change. And remember sharia law is much much wider than punishment and be heading which is what a lot of people might initially think of.

I think this is where the reviews are lacking, what are the beliefs of those who took part in the child rape gangs.

And this, again, is where motives matter. Musk is banging on about the grooming gangs because he can blame Starmer for them. You are banging on about grooming gangs because you are worried that Muslims want to behead you.

Musk wants an inquiry that implicates Starmer. You want an inquiry that implicates Islam. Neither of these things are an inquiry that supports the victims and actually gets to the bottom of what is happening and why because your outcome is pre-determined.

And because the outcome is pre-determined for you, if the inquiry doesn't satisfactorily find that outcome, people cry 'cover-up'.

• Sharia is overwhelmingly concerned with personal religious observance such as prayer and fasting, and not with national laws.

Any observant Muslim would consider him or herself a Sharia adherent. It is impossible to find a Muslim who practices any ritual and does not believe himself or herself to be complying with Sharia. Defining Sharia as a threat, therefore, is the same thing as saying that all observant Muslims are a threat.

I will also say, because the outcome of the proposed inquiry is pre-determined in some people's motives, that's why they're rejecting the last inquiry.

Why should we have a new inquiry and not just get on with implementing the recommendations of the last inquiry? Because the last inquiry didn't blame Islam/Starmer delete as required.

Ok - I’m assuming you’re a woman so let’s make it more relevant you you. How do you feel abour
”39% agreed that “wives should always obey their husbands”” (quoted from the guardian article)do you think this clear misogyny is worth further investigation in the context of the child rape gangs. How does it make you feel that 4out of 10 Muslims think wife’s should be subservient to their husbands?

I'm an atheist so have a pretty dim view of all religions, and lots of them have shitty attitudes to women. But then you don't need to be religious to have a shitty attitude to women.

The grooming gangs around my way aren't muslim, If you want an inquiry that only looks at Muslim attitudes to women and whether that influences them to rape children, what about the all the victims of non-Muslim rapists? No inquiry for them? No support or even horrified tweets because they don't fit the narrative?

Or 1.5% of the UK population. I should imagine if non Muslim men in the UK were polled about the same thing you'd probably get a higher number of blokes agreeing.
ETA it's not that long ago that a wife promising to obey her husband was in the cofe marriage service.

It might be a “tiny minority” in some areas, in my sons form class in secondary school around 50% were Muslim - in a year of 200 around 100 were Muslim. So basically statistically an entire class from his year came from familes holding those views. So it depends where you live. You see certain areas of Birmingham it’s not a small minority - but interesting you think those views cannot be changed. It doesn’t matter how wide sharia law is it contains those provisions I set out. This is why I used the lower figure rather than the 40% who wanted some aspects of Sharia law introduced as it didn’t specify which aspects.

And it has, for quite some time been completely optional to remove this wording which I believe comes from the 16th century - it was completely accepted by the CofE that this wording was archaic and really had no place in modern society.

The thing is, it really depends where you live. I used to live in an area with a very high Muslim population There were very large numbers of Muslims in my child’s secondary school.

There might possibly be 1 o 2 Muslims in my son’s current school. The numbers you quote are averages. In some areas there is a high concentration therefore of people with these values.

I think it would be very helpful to update these figures by undertaking a similar survey, it was from 10 years ago. It might be that attitudes have significantly shifted and this would help with integration and acceptance. The trouble is while such debates and people’s concerns based on such evidence are being shut down and no one dares to have the discussion and undertake further research we just don’t know.

I would be very happy if I was proved wrong. It would make me feel much safer - as I now do living in an area where magic as a practice is quite widely accepted,

Bit until we can openly have these discussions, until we can see actual updated evidence then division will always be there.

The mask of faux concern for abused women and children has truly slipped, hasn't it? It is all about hating Muslims.

Not sure you should be talking approvingly of that CofE when their own abuse scandal and cover-up has just left the headlines.

Perhaps it might be useful to look at what features there are in common between that abuse scandal and the grooming gang scandal, but some people are only interested if the perpetrators are Muslims.

Some hate Muslims, some hate Starmer, some hate both.

'And it has, for quite some time been completely optional to remove this wording which I believe comes from the 16th century - it was completely accepted by the CofE that this wording was archaic and really had no place in modern society.'

It wasn’t an option for my grandmother.

How do you explain the' trad wife' movement which appears to be gaining strength in the US? I'd be far more concerned by a new wave of men/women who think a wife should be subservient. Looking at the political landscape of the US, anti abortion legislation etc, I would be very concerned that an individual close to the new president who is a believer in population growth (and does his part assiduously for the cause) is chuntering on about politics in the UK. I wonder whether Musk believes a wife should obey her husband?

Oh if you search my posts you will see I have plenty to say about the Jewish mystical cult that is Christianity on many levels. But on the point you were discussing they have moved with the times (as generally they have done on gay rights- still a way to go but heading in the right direction)

I would explain that by the current movement in America and to a certain extent in the UK of strict definitions of left and right. I don’t agree with a lot of esp evangelical Christianity either.. you can search the religion and philosophy board for my view on Christianity as an organised religion (summary -it’s not a very complimentary one).

How do you reach that conclusion? I know you desperately want that to be true but it isn’t.

And some are concerned about views held by different groups that affect the safety of others. I’m equally concerned about the views of Muslims and the far right re Jews for example (in that article I quoted more Muslims believed Jews were responsible for 9/11 than Al queda most right ringers believe it was the IS government trump doesn’t believe in climate change - I’m happy to call all these attitudes out.

Why on earth would I desperately want something so repulsive to be true?

The problem with the enquiries that have happened is that they don't address the institutionalised cover up. And making it mandatory to report child sex abuse is all well and good but if the powers they be don't do anything about it, or warn the peeps, or arrest the child or any of the other disgusting things they did, and then don't actually proceed with cases and then don't jail the guilty men, then what is the point of any of it?

The 'ring of protection' that seems to be drawn around these groups of men time and again needs to be proofed against. That's the discussion that needs having.

Because you can’t argue against what I’m saying, you can’t refute the evidence I put forward. You therefore try and undermine me as a person. This is referred to as an hominem argument and is considered to be one of the lowest and least sophisticated forms of argument.,it usually indicates a person has nothing left to add to the debate.,

So let’s get back to the point in question shall we?

No, I think all such crimes should be investigated, that all crimes of child exploitation should be investigated. This includes a full analysis of the causes, including underlying attitudes. As you will see I have also commented on the Church of England situation for example. I have also in the past (under a different username I think) commented on the Catholic abuse scandal and the historic link to Catholicism and genocide (together with its embedded misogyny). I have also been critical of esp evangelical Christian beliefs towards witchcraft (although luckly less chance of being killed for that now days in their belief system - although some parts of Africa are pretty fucked up in that regard, you’d be hard pressed to find too much support for that in the Uk -although I seem to recall a family of African descent killing some one in their family for witchcraft who I believe were Christians so not completely without support. I would absolutely condemn this kind of Christian thinking too and say people who held those beliefs needed to be assimilated into the UK). Interestingly, I was chatting to a colleague who identifies as a cultural Muslim and she shared many of my concerns. I would say her and her family (originally from Afghanistan) were very well integrated into British culture. So unlike someone else’s comments on here that division is inevitable, I think integration is perfectly possible.

I don’t care what religion it is, and I have been significantly more vocal over the years about Christianity- religion needs to move on with the times, it needs to stop clinging to concepts which were designed specifically for a certain time and geography and for a specific purpose (usually control, power and war). In a modern western society we need to call out religious views which affect a person’s compliance with the rule of law, with equality and with the underlying values and norms of that society because it is those things that will destabilise society. We need to understand how to integrate everyone into British Society and we do that by understanding the situation and norms and values people have that prevents that. Do they not believe in equality for gay people, do they not believe in their responsibility to work? Are the disenfranchised through poverty, through under achievement in education? Do they not believe in the primacy of the uK legal system, are women not equal in their eyes?

There are a lot of groups who need to be addressed and to understand how their norms and values differ. We are talking about one group here on this thread specifically but I’m happy to talk about the other groups who also need to be addressed.

Aside from the fact that there have been lots of prosecutions of grooming gangs, there have also been inquiries into the institutionalised cover-ups and failings on the parts of various authorities.

You are absolutely correct to be concerned about a 'ring of protection' around perpetrators but I am concerned that when you say 'these groups of men' that you are thinking specifically about Muslims grooming gangs. We've just had another church child abuse scandal where there was a cover-up. Prior to that the news was about Mohammed al-Fayed routinely raping and assaulting women he employed and that being covered up.

Focus on Muslim grooming gangs and you are missing a far wider picture of abuse, cover-ups and failings.

Also, I think there is an issue of grooming gangs who are not using children for sex, but for crime (county lines). That has been dealt with poorly for a long time too.

I totally agree with that these things need addressing too, but it’s not an either or situation. We need to look at the vulnerablity of children certainly by addressing child poverty, by addressing educational underachievement esp of certain groups (white wc boys esp). I would also add in the exclusion of neuro diverse children and people from education and the work place. We also need to look at all the factors that feed into child exploitation. Some of these will be common across all child exploitation, others will be peculiar to different groups. If we want to sort out this issue across society we need to address all the pertinent factors across societ, ever aspect. There should be no where to hide, including behind terms people are using as some kind of magical defence charm. I think we’re getting there with not letting make rapists into women’s prisons out of fear of being called transphobic. We need to regain the sane honesty across the board.