To ask if you know anyone personally who got pregnant by lying about contraception?

[Pavemw]

Just that, really. I have an extremely close friend who confided in me at new year that her 11 year old dd wasn’t actually an accident. I have known her half my life and our kids are friends. She was with this man for a short time and the relationship did not last the pregnancy although he does see his dd and has been pretty good to my friend financially.

I can’t get my head around it. This is someone who I go to for advice. She’s always empathetic and kind. I can’t even believe she would have done it and I don’t know why it’s bothering me as much as it is. I don’t know her ex, haven’t seen him in many years. I almost feel she’s lied to me too, which I know is silly. She said she was late 30s, had been told her fertility wasn’t great and had had enough of being messed around by men, so when this next one seemed keen to commit she just went for it. I know she has been treated badly in the past and has always put her heart out there only to be messed about or strung along so I can almost feel how frustrated she would have been but… to do this? I can’t imagine it as I had my two in a happy marriage. Maybe I being horribly judgmental. I can’t reconcile this with who I thought she was all these years. Am I being dramatic?!

Why is it?

If you saw someone robbing your car then you are a witness to a crime being committed against you. If you are conscious then you are a witness to the crime being committed against you as you see it happen.

🙄

You're just making yourself look foolish now.

You compared a woman deliberately deceiving a man into having unprotected sex with a man lying to a woman about being married and declared that both were 'consensual'.

I've provided an example of women that were deceived by men who clearly don't consider their sex to have been consensual.

What is it about consent that you find so confusing?

You're just coming across as the female version of a 'stealther'.

The difference with when men lie the woman can get pregnant. It’s an effect on her body. There’s no effect in men’s body.

And stealthing is rape because it’s an assault on the body. A woman lying about the pill is not rape

Hope thats cleared it up for you.

Also: why can’t men just wear condoms? Genuine question? Or get a vasectomy? It’s not hard to do.

Yes, men are taught about contraception - they're taught that the risk of pregnancy is much, much lower when a woman is on the pill. Should men assume that all women are compulsive liars and use a condom just in case? Because that would have certainly scuppered the plans of the revolting amount of women on this thread who tricked men into conceiving children against their will.

Not true, and this is a really dangerous thing to say!

My first son was conceived whilst I was on the Pill (dianette, which was very strong contraceptive at the time for acne), I took it religiously every day at 6am. I was starting a career and did NOT want children. I wasn't, ill, didn't miss a pill, wasn't taking another medication. I was absolutely blindsided, the doctor however was utterly unsurprised and told me that he'd see two women like me per year (that's the clinical failure rate btw, even if you use it properly). Luckily my partner was not thinking like you, and he was extremely supportive.

My 2nd son was planned.

My 3rd son was born after my surgical sterilisation. Couldn't believe it, even the consultant was surprised this time. Or do you think I was faking that "accident" too?

This 👏🏻

My partner doesn’t want anymore, and made that very clear very early in the relationship. He’s not selfish, he just has made a decision about his own life.

Now that it’s our life, me “accidentally” falling pregnant wouldn’t be the solution if I decided I wanted a child. Leaving him and having one with someone willing would be the solution.

What? So I was a witness to my own rape (I mean, technically I was) but that's not enough evidence is it. My rapist (who was also there, and also a witness) says it was consensual.

So 2 witnesses. 2 stories.

No, you are still not getting it!! This is not about whether contraception is a good idea for both partners and the fact that there is always a risk of pregnancy even if it is used. Both parties must indeed accept that degree of risk, and should deal responsibly with the consequences should pregnancy occur.

This is about the importance of informed consent. If consent is given on the basis of use of one or more forms of contraception and one party knowingly does not use that as agreed, consent is effectively invalidated by that action. Full stop. No ifs, buts or exceptions.

Whether a man should use a condom if he wants to be sure at least one form of contraception is used may be accurate but does not in any way impact the issue of consent.

All he had to do is wear a condom regardless of the woman’s contraception choices - how hard is that?

A man could impregnate a woman who isn’t sneakily stopping her pill. Which is precisely why it’s just good sense to use a condom no matter what.

But no apparently men don’t know that you can double up or “get excited in the bath” 🤣 so let’s blame the women

There is usually a lot more evidence. Rape is not an entry level crime. There will be crimes that have gone before and the victim has time to collect evidence. With the age of digital devices many are recording things and using this as evidence. Many of the rapists themselves admit to what they have done. They feel that powerful they gloat about it and threaten their victims....leaving lots of evidence behind. Then there is the physical evidence.

Deceitful sex between two people of equal power is still consensual. There. Get it now?

Oh and those women didn’t “consider” sex to be non-consensual the LAW decided it wasn’t and comparing it to a man not wearing a condom is deeply offensive.

You're just coming across as the female version of a 'stealther'.

Women can’t stealth but OK.

Im sure you think that would hurt me but TBH I’d be more worried if the half wits of the world considered me to be intelligent.

I met somebody once (friend of a friend) who set out to have a child, decided on the man and got pregnant by him. Apparently she never told him and brought the child up alone. She was wealthy with her own very successful business and could afford to do this. I thought it was shocking.

All this about men not using condoms - the reason some people are on the pill, is because they’d prefer not to use condoms. I wouldn’t thank my partner for “doubling up.”

Yes there are risks involved with that, but it’s not always that the men are refusing. Women have a choice too.

They’re also taught double up contraceptives hugely lowers the risk…so how come it’s only women expect to sort out contraception?

Once again, it’s not about assuming women are liars, but taking all the precautions you can if you don’t want a child. This isn’t rocket science. Year 6 children get this why can’t adults?

On the eyes of the law yes victims are witnesses

A man could impregnate a woman who isn’t sneakily stopping her pill. Which is precisely why it’s just good sense to use a condom no matter what.
But no apparently men don’t know that you can double up or “get excited in the bath” 🤣 so let’s blame the women who deliberately lie about their contraception in order to deceive their partners and trick them into fathering children that they didn't want.

Yes. That seems fair.

Not really. He could have taken precautions and chose not to. He actively reduced the chances of pregnancy. Why are we sympathising with these morons?

They can, of course, and yes if they don’t want a child that would be wise. However, particularly in the context of a relationship I hardly think it is “blaming women” to expect a woman to actually be using the contraceptive they say they are using/have agreed to use. And if they don’t want to/have stopped it, to let their partner know so he can decide how to proceed.

I happen to believe that informed consent is important for both parties when it comes to sex. But it is clear to me that you only view consent as a one way street (i.e. only important for women).

There is often no other evidence. I mean sure, his sperm was inside me. But he claimed it was consensual. It wasn't.

Not really the same story. My friend who was/ is still married to her GP husband. As their first child nearly died at birth he said they shouldn’t have another, as it was too dangerous. She was supposed to be taking the pill (didn’t) but some how she fell for her second and healthy son 50 odd years ago.

Yes i know they are. But no jury is going to convict someone on the basis that "she said you raped her" with no other evidence.

"Why are we sympathising with these morons?"

So any man who trusts his wife/partner to actually be honest about contraception is a moron?

You're deranged in your man hatred.

Probably. I know 2 cases where women around 30 who had obviously had other partners or married before suddenly got accidentally pregnant with new dp of about 6m.

Two things can be true at the same time: Women lying about contraception is immoral, and they should not do this. Also men are foolish for not taking the option of condoms, and in doing so are actively choosing NOT to reduce the chances of pregnancy. Therefore can’t be all that surprised when an increase of risk results in pregnancy.

I hate men because I expect men who don’t want babies to use condoms 🤣 ok

No, men who actively choose not wear a condom then go “Whaaaat?! The sex we had resulted in pregnancy! How! How does that happen?!” Are morons. What do blokes think sex is for?