To ask if you know anyone personally who got pregnant by lying about contraception?

[Pavemw]

Just that, really. I have an extremely close friend who confided in me at new year that her 11 year old dd wasn’t actually an accident. I have known her half my life and our kids are friends. She was with this man for a short time and the relationship did not last the pregnancy although he does see his dd and has been pretty good to my friend financially.

I can’t get my head around it. This is someone who I go to for advice. She’s always empathetic and kind. I can’t even believe she would have done it and I don’t know why it’s bothering me as much as it is. I don’t know her ex, haven’t seen him in many years. I almost feel she’s lied to me too, which I know is silly. She said she was late 30s, had been told her fertility wasn’t great and had had enough of being messed around by men, so when this next one seemed keen to commit she just went for it. I know she has been treated badly in the past and has always put her heart out there only to be messed about or strung along so I can almost feel how frustrated she would have been but… to do this? I can’t imagine it as I had my two in a happy marriage. Maybe I being horribly judgmental. I can’t reconcile this with who I thought she was all these years. Am I being dramatic?!

What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander (and vice versa). If stealthing is rape then so is a woman lying about or tampering with contraception. Yes hard to prove but then rape so often is.

So your son says

No, because a woman cannot commit rape.

Rape is legally defined as "when a person intentionally penetrates another's vagina, anus or mouth with a penis, without the other person's consent."

You have an argument for sexual assault though

@TempestTost

So if the couple agree to condoms, and the man puts a hole in it on the sly to get her pregnant, she is at fault for not also using other contraception?
Or is it only men who get to be responsible for the deceptions of women?

But, but, but, that’s different….apparently..

She hasn't taken anything though. He paid for his own actions.

Everyone is responsible for their own contraception. He took no responsibility, he faced the consequences.

Yes

And if someone puts a hole in the condom, then what?

Wtaf?

I know a girl who did this also, both were teens. They went on tk have another and an abusive relationship. In their 30s now, he's left, she's very bitter and spends her days making tik toks about men being narcissists. Perhaps if she hadn't removed his autonomy over his life they'd have worked.

It's a horrible thing but it's a different conversation.

It's not ok for a women to trick a man into pregnancy just because some men think taking the condom off is ok.

Both can lead to life changing results

I don’t think women who do this really give a toss what someone else thinks. Especially when they have their baby in their arms.

My mum is very honest that she did this. I’ll be honest, I’m pretty pleased she did! So I wouldn’t judge (or fucking judge) any woman who has done this.

Yes. My child has two siblings which have never been in their life because of a woman like this. Got to her late thirties until her contraception miraculously started to 'fail' 🙄

Slightly at a tangent, but how do people put holes in condoms without the other person knowing? I haven't used condoms for decades, so am ready to be corrected on this, but don't they come in little individual sealed packs, and then get put on when the man is erect? So then where's the opportunity to make holes?
" Here's one I unwrapped earlier, just in case" ... Surely no one would buy that?

If your son was old enough to be having sex he was old enough to use a condom. It was his stupid decision not to do so - the pill is not 100% effective, neither is a condom but both together work well.

Someone let down that kid on his sex education.

My son is 18 and in a relationship. He knows that he is 100% responsible for contraception and so is his GF. They use “ belt and braces “.

He also knows that if he makes her pregnant, it’s 100% her choice what happens next , because his choices ended when he decided to have sex with her.

And that if they make a baby, he will have to move college to be in the same city as her so he can care for the child half the time ( and it will be him doing it not me ). And he will have to care for that child for the next 20 Years even if he and his Gf split up . And I don’t mean just pay for the child , actually parent it.

If he’s 18 and he knows this, there’s no excuse for all these married men in their 40s who don’t know how to use contraception and that it’s not always 100% reliable. It’s absolutely pathetic , the men falling over themselves to claim they “ didn’t know “ 🙄. What they all mean is “ I CBA, that’s a woman’s job”.

And yet if she had told a story of her daughter readily believing a man’s lie I doubt you would accuse the daughter of lying.

NC for this as sure I'll get jumped on.

I sort of did this. Not lie as such, but my child's father never asked about contraception, never asked if I was on anything, never used anything himself. He'd probably say I tricked him but he never ever asked, clearly just assumed and never took any responsibility for contraception on his side.

At the time I was in my 30s and open to having a child. I was blinded by love possibly too? Hard to explain, maybe it was hormones? Like totally in a haze of not thinking thought the potential consequences of having a child that wasn't planned on both sides. I just thought, if it happens, it happens?

As it was, without contraception, it took over a year before I was pregnant. It popped into my mind throughout that maybe I couldn't have kids, so I was actually shocked when it happened in a way.

But all accounts he's a good Dad. And when it happened and he said "but I thought you'd be on something!", and I explained "no, never, and you never asked?", he actually accepted that and accepted responsibility for his own actions.

We both adore our child, thought I accept it was probably wrong to never broach the subject. He also appeared madly in love at the time and regularly said he wanted marriage and children with me. Maybe that swayed my thinking at the time too.

Just thought I'd give some perspective from experience.

No, no and no.

Your point? It’s still a form of harm. It’s a seriously life changing action which can monumentally diminish somebody’s quality of life.

I don’t think anybody who overrides somebody’s bodily autonomy cares what other people think. If they did they would not do it.

Does not mean we cannot criticise them.

Ah yes the amount of men that only think AFTER the deed is done "shit I haven't used anything, are you on the pill?" Is fucking mind boggling. They probably all consider themselves "trapped" too.

You poke pin holes in the condom. Through the wrapper (no I have not done this!)

But unless you inspect the condom wrapper under a bright light and microscope you won’t notice.

Yes two. The first advised the second.

They each think we don't know, but of course the only way to keep a secret is if the other person is dead or neither get too chatty after a few drinks.

I don’t think there is anything wrong with just not saying you are not on contraception.

That’s not a lie. If I just assumed somehow the man I was having sex with had taken precautions to not get me pregnant, and I fell pregnant - I would be an arse to accuse him of tricking me!

I only think it’s highly problematic and unethical (sexual assault adjacent) when two people have sex within a specific context but one of those people lied thus removing the other’s ability to fully consent.

I wonder if all the women on the thread who seem to think this is totally ok, and on the men, are women who have done this and think it is ok?

If so, it may happen quite a lot.

I wonder if in those cases they would support men being able to legally remove any parental responsibility.

You wanted a child and took your fertility into your own hands before it was too late. I think that is absolutely fine.