To ask if you know anyone personally who got pregnant by lying about contraception?

[Pavemw]

Just that, really. I have an extremely close friend who confided in me at new year that her 11 year old dd wasn’t actually an accident. I have known her half my life and our kids are friends. She was with this man for a short time and the relationship did not last the pregnancy although he does see his dd and has been pretty good to my friend financially.

I can’t get my head around it. This is someone who I go to for advice. She’s always empathetic and kind. I can’t even believe she would have done it and I don’t know why it’s bothering me as much as it is. I don’t know her ex, haven’t seen him in many years. I almost feel she’s lied to me too, which I know is silly. She said she was late 30s, had been told her fertility wasn’t great and had had enough of being messed around by men, so when this next one seemed keen to commit she just went for it. I know she has been treated badly in the past and has always put her heart out there only to be messed about or strung along so I can almost feel how frustrated she would have been but… to do this? I can’t imagine it as I had my two in a happy marriage. Maybe I being horribly judgmental. I can’t reconcile this with who I thought she was all these years. Am I being dramatic?!

Did you have the baby?

Yes he's 28 now. I didn't know the lad or anything as we had met on a coach.

Oh wow so he's never known about your son?

No nothing. I had been visiting family for a few days and on an evening coach home a few hours away. One thing lead to another and 2/3 weeks later, I see 2 blue lines.

Yes I know two people who have done this.

Yes

You take a risk every time you have sex, and it’s a life changing risk. I do think both people should have access to the same information about the risk. If she hasn’t taken the pill for the last week it’s awful not to tell him. He may be comfortable with that risk, but he should know. I’d think less of someone who did it deliberately and question their judgement.

It is normal and people will always do it - you just need to be the judge of whether you believe someone or not.

No, I really think that we need to look at contraception as an individual responsibility. What she's doing to cover herself shouldn't come into the equation for him. He is responsible for his own contraception and vice versa.

Maybe she's taking it wrong. Maybe she's uninformed and doesn't realise other medication she takes affects her pill. Maybe she vomited the other day and the pill came with it but she didn't think of that. Maybe she's lying. But that should all be solely on her.

No matter how good it bad the other person's intentions, never rely on anything they say when making these decisions. Rely only on yourself.

I think some people clearly are naturally quite unethical. I would not ditch a friend who told me they did this but I would look at them very differently as clearly we would have a different moral code.

I know two people who've done this.

One was a woman I worked with several years ago. Had 2 sons, husband was adamant he didn't want more. She became pregnant (and miscarried). She gave us the impression that had been a contraceptive failure, maybe or maybe not. She begged her husband to try for another as she was so upset. He refused. She promised she was taking the pill again but wasn't. He was absolutely livid when she got pregnant again. At work she went around crowing that she had tricked him and thought it clever and funny. I wonder if the news that he'd been "tricked" got back to him as she was so proud of herself. He left her briefly but they got back together and had the baby - a girl like she wanted.

The other is a very good friend of mine who I thought had a strong moral compass until she told me. I was really shocked. They had one child, by agreement, her partner felt very much "one and done" but she didn't . To be fair she was open about not being on the pill and he was expected to use condoms though this particular time she "surprised" him in the bath and got him all excited and carried away, after carefully calculating her most fertile day, knowing he'd probably take a chance rather than stop to find his johnnies. I was really surprised she admitted it though, as it could easily have got back to him if she told the wrong person. She was totally unfazed about what she'd done. Her attitude was "I wanted another baby and he wouldn't agree, so it was the only option for me".

I mean I see this as a bit different in lying about contraception. In this case the man was an idiot. They were having unprotected sex he should know carried a pregnancy risk. These are the men I feel little sympathy.

So when my ex told me he had had a vasectomy, if he was lying would that mean I could not claim to be tricked into pregnancy?

Why don’t men in that situation get vasectomies?

My ex was an arse but I always admire him for doing that. He was married before me, had two kids, marriage was failing and clearly he planned to leave. And then his wife magically discovered she was pregnant. Not so much as a pregnancy scare in years together and all of sudden a contraception failure. He did not argue with her (although he heavily suspected it was an “accident” so he would stay. Cancelled his decision to leave but immediately contacted his doctor about how to get a vasectomy.

His wife lost her shit that he arranged that but he said to me he did not want more kids and he was no woman was going to take thay decision from him.

So snip snip he sorted it.

Dss was conceived like that

I do understand why you feel stealthing isn't exactly the same, but I wouldn't call all men who don't wear a condom every time irresponsible. Loads of marriages and long term relationships out there where people agree on taking the pill instead and those men aren't irresponsible, it's based on trust.

Any man who doesn't want to conceive a child should bag it up. No exceptions. Any who don't and then blame the woman for "getting pregnant" needs to give their head a wobble.
Problem is, too many men prefer to bareback for their own immediate pleasure.
I'm not convinced by this theory of women trapping men. I think it's a trope.
Perhaps it happens in a tiny minority, but it's mostly what men claim when they don't want to take responsibility for their own actions (ejaculations).

But it’s not about trust. Female contraceptives are not 100% proof. It’s about not wanting a baby and doing all you can (if you consider having a baby as life ruining or something you absolutely don’t want) to prevent a pregnancy you don’t want. If men and women feel so strongly about not having kids, why wouldn’t they double up contraception? Rather than have much less than they ought then blaming the woman when it goes tits up? I think men should be EXTRA careful in fact given that they know they have no choice in the matter when it comes to keeping a baby or not

And I don’t “feel” stealthing is the same, I know stealthing isn’t the same

Op yanbu, probably already been said here but the fact is if you ( as in the plural 'you' to posters saying its okay ) would take issue with a man removing a condom during sex after a woman had only given consent to have sex with one, but you think a woman lying about contraception is okay then you're a hypocrite and both are equal.

I can’t see how a woman deciding she wants a baby and having one … is a heinous crime?
I “accidentally” got pregnant - twice - without my DH consent. He was dragging his heels, my eggs were running dry. So I took charge and made it happen. Ta dah.
Best decisions I ever made.

I have to say there’s something a bit off about people (usually men) who have had their children be born, presumably have a bond and love grown and then bitch and moan that they were “trapped”. If you have a child you love and care for why would you dwell on it unless you wanted to stick the boot in to your ex?

JFC

They aren’t equal.

One is a assualt on a body.

One can transfer STDs. One can enforce a pregnancy on someone else’s body. The other cannot

They’re not remotely comparable

Accidents happen, hopefully a loving partner would believe you and understand if you forgot a few pills or whatever. But to stop taking the pill sneakily is a betrayal of trust. I'd never say to a man in that situation "well you should have worn a condom then." It's a devious thing to do.

We are talking about irresponsibility here. It’s not irresponsible to trust someone. It’s irresponsible to not do everything you can to prevent pregnancy. Which is what men who don’t want kids relying on women taking the pill are doing