Has my husband crossed a line?

[Karibukiti]

My husband and I have 2 children ages 3 and 5 and differ in our parenting approach. If the children are in a good mood he can be an excellent dad, playing Lego / drawing / wresting / making dens with them - all the stuff they love.
However, if he is feeling stressed or they do something that displeases him, it’s as if a switch flips and he is a different person. His expression changes, he shouts at / ignores them, and it’s like treading on eggshells around him. A few times he has done things I feel have crossed a line:

• Aggressively told them to shut up
• Thrown a toy at our 3 year old’s back after he threw it at him
• Flicked our 3 year old’s face after our 3 year old hit him
• Dragged our crying 5 year old into the bathroom after he lost patience with him for not getting dressed
• Called them disgusting / babies / told them they stink (in an aggressive tone) when they have accidents

I always comfort the boys when I see this kind of behaviour, stick up for them, tell them it’s not right, and ask my husband to take a moment to calm down. I don’t want to undermine his parenting but equally I don’t want to tolerate any kind of shaming or aggression towards them.

When we talk about it afterwards, he is very reluctant to do so, makes jokes about it / places the blame entirely on the kids. He also says all parents lose their temper sometimes and I’m being over the top. I’ve asked him to access counselling/offered to attend couples counselling with him (he can get this free and confidentially through work) but he always says “yes yes when I’m ready” but is never ready/it’s never the right time to talk about it.

I said I need to talk to someone (a friend, my sister, my mum) about this (he’s always lovely in front of them) but he said if I do this, he’ll leave.

I just don’t know what to do. Things are fine now, but I’m worried about the next time.

I wouldn't be okay with that behaviour towards children

Are you scared of your husband (for yourself or your children)? If the answer is yes you need to get out.

He has refused help.

He is blackmailing you to not tell anyone.

These are hallmarks of someone being abusive.

Look - I’m all for not dragging down a partner to your family as it does affect their relationship. But equally - if you cannot talk about your relationship with any of your friends/family there’sa problem with your relationship. If it was just don’t talk to your sister because she is always so critical, jumps to extremes etc (and you feel this is a fair deception) that would be one thing. But don’t talk about this with anyone?

If this was just a parenting style there’d be no worries you talking about it openly.

Does your husband ever act this way in front of other people? If he parents lovingly in public and meanly in private then he knows what he OSS doing is wrong.

Can YOU access counselling or speak with your GP about this?

… I don’t want to tolerate any kind of shaming or aggression towards them.

And yet tolerating his cruelty is exactly what you’re doing, @Karibukiti. You are still with this pig who abuses your little boys, as well as yourself. He’s training you to keep quiet and keep his vicious secrets.

Things are fine now.
No, they’re not. Your children are living in fear of their brute of a father who hits them, drags them, and belittles/shames them. They will be walking on eggshells, never knowing when the monster will suddenly physically or verbally mistreat them. His intermittent nice/abhorrent behavior is called the cycle of abuse. This horrific bullying will have far-reaching ramifications in their lives.

You need to leave him, @Karibukiti. I pray that a third party steps in to help and protect these poor children.

He's an abuser, you need to get out for your children's sake. If you remain, your children will grow up with damaged self esteem at the very best. Please look here: https://www.hestia.org/brightsky you can download the Brightsky app, that will give you information on where to go for support, it helps you to understand domestic abuse and how you can escape it.

Good luck xxx

It's not great, but it seems it's in response to your son's bad behaviour so I assume it's an attempt to discipline. I only have DDs and they are a delight and obviously I would never physically hurt them. However, I see so many feral, disrespectful boys in their classes who are scared of nothing and cause chaos, as their parents are much too soft. So in one way I think your H is right to bring your son to heel if he's throwing and hitting.

My nephew is a thrower/hitter/aggressive child. My sister and her husband are lovely people so it didn't come from watching them, he was just born violent and annoying as many boys appear to be. it's continued on to where he ruins days out and terrorises other children and I've often secretly wished his lovely father would put some fear in him instead of "gentle hands" as a toddler and weak "no dessert" now he's 8. Some of these boys need hard discipline from what I've observed. Without seeing your family dynamic in person it's impossible to say if your husband is the problem or your child is.

All that said, you're obviously not happy about it and that's absolutely enough to leave if you want to.

And YABU for being a nasty judgemental piece of work.

What in the flying fuck are you talking about. The biggest load of crap I've ever read on this site.

I don't think the fact some people are more violent means this isn't abuse.

Flicking a child in the face is really intimidating. The things he says and the tone he uses are humiliating and menacing.

This is emotional and physical abuse. You don't have to be extremely violent to be an abuser. It's mostly about control. Most abusers are not violent most of the time.

I said I need to talk to someone (a friend, my sister, my mum) about this (he’s always lovely in front of them) but he said he'd leave

Great. The sooner the better.

Have you spoken to them yet? Why not? You're complicit in his abuse.

He's rightly ashamed of his behaviour. It's thriving on your silence.

You have nothing to be ashamed of. Defend your children.

I think a few posters need to have a think about how they would feel if they were shouted at , shamed , or flicked in the face by someone 3x their size.

It doesn’t matter that it’s only a little piece of Lego that was thrown or a flick that didn’t hurt: it’s what’s behind it. He’s retaliating, as an adult, to the behaviour of a three year old with similar conduct himself and it’s a concerning lack of self-control. The worry for you is if he escalates this in a temper - you can’t take that risk. There are some signs that he might - the dragging and aggressive tone both suggest that he’s struggling to keep a lid on his emotions and behave calmly. He’ll no doubt minimise it and make you wonder if you’ve overreacted - it’s only words or a tiny piece of light plastic, to him - but it’s the frustration / spite / anger that’s the issue. He can’t be trusted to treat two very small children with appropriate discipline even when you’re standing there and it’s verging dangerously close to hitting and verbal abuse (especially as they get older and understand more) so that needs to be stopped immediately. So no, YANBU. You’re being very sensible to a risk.

I’m really concerned that he’s threatened to leave if you discuss this with anyone.

To add to this , the only acceptable time to raise your voice is if someone is in danger.

You can't ever refer to him as an excellent dad if he is abusive to his children some of the time. Any abuse from him at all means that he is a terrible father and you should leave him to try and protect your children.

You say that things are fine at the moment, but are you walking on eggshells waiting for the abuse to start again? Do you have a horrible feeling in the pit of your stomach? That is no way to live.

'So in one way I think your H is right to bring your son to heel if he's throwing and hitting.'

OP's son isn't a dog that needs to be brought to heel. The children are 3 and 5. He is throwing things at them, flicking their faces and calling them disgusting. How is his behaviour any better than theirs? He is a violent man with a violent temper which he takes out on small children. Violence by adults directed at small children is never acceptable, even if children need discipline.

Children are like sponges, they will copy the adults behaviour.
If dad is throwing, flicking, dragging and pulling, they will either do the same to their siblings and friends, or they will be scared to put a foot wrong in their own home.

It's a blessing you never had male children, imo.🙄

Little update:

I really appreciate everyone’s perspectives on this and it’s been massively helpful in solidifying my opinion that I have to act now.

I sat down and had a long talk with him and although he can’t admit that he has done anything wrong, I think on some level he knows and feels ashamed. He agreed to attend couple’s counselling with me which I have now arranged through my work.

A few people mentioned his upbringing and they’re right - he didn’t have the best role models himself. His dad was absent and his mum could be very strict. It’s not going to be straightforward.

Abuse thrives in secrecy, remember that.

Abusers HATE anyone knowing how they really behave.
Make it very clear to him that you will now be seeking outside support for you and the children and if he wants to leave, you will support him leaving the home to keep your children safe.

He really needs to see that you are strong and mean business.

It's abuse, you need to protect your children.

Couples counseling does not work and is a very bad idea where there is abuse. Any counseling should be done separately

Separate therapy would be preferable, I tried encouraging him to do this but because he can’t admit his own issues it wasn’t possible.

Please read the PP's comments again - you shouldn't be having couples therapy when there's abuse. If he can't accept his behaviour, he's not going to change.

Anger management therapy sounds like a good idea.
It seems the husband has quick flashes of anger, that's what he needs to control.

Firstly I'm sorry you are having to deal with this OP. Having experienced couples therapy a number of times, I'm wondering how that will contribute towards safeguarding your children from the abuse? They are two very different issues.

Thank you. It’s not the ideal result - ideally he’d be going to anger management or some sort of therapy himself. I guess I’m hoping that’s the next step and he’s made some progress by agreeing to come to couples therapy.