Has my husband crossed a line?

[Karibukiti]

My husband and I have 2 children ages 3 and 5 and differ in our parenting approach. If the children are in a good mood he can be an excellent dad, playing Lego / drawing / wresting / making dens with them - all the stuff they love.
However, if he is feeling stressed or they do something that displeases him, it’s as if a switch flips and he is a different person. His expression changes, he shouts at / ignores them, and it’s like treading on eggshells around him. A few times he has done things I feel have crossed a line:

• Aggressively told them to shut up
• Thrown a toy at our 3 year old’s back after he threw it at him
• Flicked our 3 year old’s face after our 3 year old hit him
• Dragged our crying 5 year old into the bathroom after he lost patience with him for not getting dressed
• Called them disgusting / babies / told them they stink (in an aggressive tone) when they have accidents

I always comfort the boys when I see this kind of behaviour, stick up for them, tell them it’s not right, and ask my husband to take a moment to calm down. I don’t want to undermine his parenting but equally I don’t want to tolerate any kind of shaming or aggression towards them.

When we talk about it afterwards, he is very reluctant to do so, makes jokes about it / places the blame entirely on the kids. He also says all parents lose their temper sometimes and I’m being over the top. I’ve asked him to access counselling/offered to attend couples counselling with him (he can get this free and confidentially through work) but he always says “yes yes when I’m ready” but is never ready/it’s never the right time to talk about it.

I said I need to talk to someone (a friend, my sister, my mum) about this (he’s always lovely in front of them) but he said if I do this, he’ll leave.

I just don’t know what to do. Things are fine now, but I’m worried about the next time.

Gather evidence (nanny cam).

I would consider contacting ss.. You need it on file you don't agree with his parenting... Or he will get contact. Unsupervised..

You know this isn't right OP. If your 5 year old tells his teacher that his daddy 'flicked' his sibling's face it would quite likely trigger a safeguarding investigation. Speak to someone, soon.

If he's so extreme about ensuring that no one knows about his behaviour then he knows it's wrong.

If he's done nothing wrong then why hide it?

Ask yourself, is this the behaviour that you want your boys to emulate?

I kicked my ex out for less. He refused to dress the baby or to feed him, while knowing I'd been on the go with housework all morning and was still busy when I'd asked for the two simple things. He'd done nothing all morning, then had the audacity to lie back on the sofa and look smug.

Don't let your kids grow up in fear. Don't stay in a relationship where he doesn't meet you at your level or listen to your concerns. You all deserve better. The good times will make you feel guilty, but those bad times are twisted and cruel. Remember those.

there's the physical abuse - which will most likely ramp up. Today it's "flicking" a child's face, dragging them into a bathroom and throwing a toy at them... tomorrow it's a slap across the face, a shove down the stairs or a kick in the stomach. Always with a "but it's their fault - they made me do it" which is a) bollocks and b) completely misses the point that children at this age don't know how to behave.

Even without that though, there are loads of red flags, not least his threats to leave you and his controlling behaviour in respect of who you can talk to.

I will put money on there actually being quite a lot of other red flags that you haven't noticed or mentioned. Silent treatment when you fight? Resistance to you going out (reasons from "can't cope with the children" to handling the children so badly you can't face the risk of leaving him with them, to complaints that you're abandoning him/the children to concerns about the specific friends you want to meet up with... to name a few).

Your poor children. This all made my physically flinch. It really doesn’t matter if he plays with them when they’re behaving well – all abusers can turn on the charm – and in fact makes it worse. He’s training them to understand that they have to walk on eggshells for his approval, that they can’t have free run of their feelings, they have to be “good” or daddy punishes them. And how confusing to be three and sometimes Daddy plays Lego and sometimes Daddy hits you in the face! I feel sick thinking about it.

He leaves, or you leave, the details matter less than getting your children free from this horrible situation.

Do it, tell someone, let him go. This is referral to social services territory and that’s why he doesn’t want anyone else to know. Your kids are at risk and so are you. Please contact women’s aid and/or www.rightsofwomen.org.uk because you might lose them if you don’t leave him.

Just please bear in mind before asking the OP why she cannot see what he is doing etc that it is very likely he is abusing her, even if ‘just’ emotionally. She is probably questioning herself as he may well have gaslit her into thinking things are normal when they are not.

OP, please seek some advice and get some help to leave or kick him out. Deep down you know it is wrong which is why you have asked on here, subconsciously asking for agreement that what you think is correct.

I don't believe this is 'highly abusive'. It's poor parenting yes. It sounds like he cannot deal with stressful situations and everyone knows 2 young kids are stressful. I would class highly abusive as regular beatings, not giving them food or making them sleep on the floor or something.

Thrown a toy at our 3 year old’s back after he threw it at him
Flicked our 3 year old’s face after our 3 year old hit him
Dragged our crying 5 year old into the bathroom after he lost patience with him for not getting dressed

Did these actions hurt the child? Did he flick them with force so it hurt? Did they throw the toy hard so it hurt? I've dragged my child to a room to get dressed before and I'm sure a lot of parents have, but not in a painful way. How do you react when your child throws something at you or hits you? If in a gentle way, does that actually work?

Obviously these reactions aren't the correct way of dealing with things, but unless he's physically hurting them I wouldn't say they're that serious.

I think shouting shut up at them is wrong, does this happen often or was it a one off that he then realised he shouldn't have said it? Calling a child disgusting for having an accident is nasty. Did they have loads of accidents in a day and he just got frustrated or was it out of the blue?

Like a pp said this was pretty normal parenting years ago, although that doesn't make it ok it also doesn't mean he will go on to punch his kids in the face or try to drown them.

There have always been shit, abusive parents & there always will be.

Dragging kids about, throwing a toy at them, flicking their face(wtaf) when was this ever acceptable?

It might have been ignored by others but who seeing any of that even in the 60s would think it ok?

I don't know anyone who was treated like that!

Also born in the 60s.

I've lost my temper and shouted at my kids, hell I may have even told them to shut up once or twice. The difference is I know I've messed up and I've apologised to the kids if I've lost my temper, I've never physically reprimanded them or shamed them and I think this is where he crosses the line. It's up to you whether you want to give him an ultimatum, but he's got to realise how wrong his behaviour is.

@Whattodoforthebesteek

if I were to have behaved like that I’d have had my head ripped off… he calls them idiots

I think it's fairly normal to lose your patience and let a shout out PUT ON YOUR SHOES would be my common failing of patience. I feel like I often shout and then apologise for shouting.

I don't think it is anyway normal to call your child an idiot. Not only is it emotional abuse but why kick down your own kids...is life not hard enough without your parents putting you down.

He's emotionally and physically abusing your darling children. They deserve so much better poor little poppets. He knows it too which is why he's threatening you if you talk to your own family. What a piece of work.

Very much not OK and he knows it - that's why he says he'll leave if you discuss it with your friends or relatives.
Sounds like he has an anger management issue - I think at the very least, he needs to acknowledge this and get therapy to help with it, although realistically I think you may end up needing to leave. It's not normal to behave like this with small children, no matter how much they irritate you.

I agree, I’ve asked him not to in the moment and after so I’m not undermining him. I texted him in the moment too, cos it will become about me not supporting him. He rolled his eyes. But separating, which looks to be the only thing left for us, means he have them on his own.

There is also the chance that he's just a nasty, abusing PoS

Ever considered that?

You're assuming that someone with little patience or tolerance will want them

Hopefully he won't

Shouting at your children to get their shoes on for the umpteenth time is not in the same league as flicking them, or throwing things at them.

He hurts those small children and then threatens to leave if you tell anyone that he is abusing his children.

Shameful behaviour.
Put your children first and protect them.
Let him leave and tell everyone why he left .....because you spoke to your family about him hurting the children.
He's a house terrorist.

It was probably only 10-15 years ago though that parents were still saying to bite your child if they both, to isolate your child if they misbehaved, people on Supernanny were manhandling / dragging their "naughty" children back to their bedrooms etc

How are you doing OP

Hope you are ok x

Yabu for having children with this abuser.

Victim-blaming, very helpful.

Flicking a child in the face, that is just absolutely disgusting behaviour. He's not even pretending he's going to change... You know what to do.