Page 29 | Son has just told us he is non binary

Chipshopninja · 2025-01-02T19:31:27+00:00

13 years old Wants us to use they/them He came out as Bi a a couple of years ago and I was fine with that but this has really hit me hard I'm terrified that this is going to lead to hormones and surgery. Don't know why I'm posting tbh but feeling crappy because I didn't handle it well. I cried. I can't call him my son anymore He's my only child Has anyone else been through this?

Lostcat · 05/01/2025 11:52

iwentjasonwaterfalls · 05/01/2025 11:03

I think there has to be a middle ground between some of the very polarised opinions here, because we're not dealing with an ideology, we're dealing with an actual child, at a time where hormones are rife and different influences are battling for control and emotions are incredibly high.

A lot of trans circles/communities, especially online, advocate for cutting off anyone who doesn't immediately and unquestioningly support. That's not healthy; there are reasons to cut family members out and I have absolutely done it myself, but it isn't healthy to cut off parents at such a young age for a reason like this - but you have to be aware that it's a possibility if those are their influences (I'm choosing to use they/them pronouns for your child, that's not me suggesting anyone is compelled to). Responding with some of the things suggested in this thread - total refusal to entertain the idea etc - will risk driving them further away.

There's a middle ground where you can support the child without supporting the path they're on. It might mean using they/them pronouns, if that's their biggest bugbear at the moment, but it leaves the door open to them hearing your concerns about more permanent choices down the road like surgery and hormones. Your concerns then are perceived as "my mum really cares about me and wants me to consider every option carefully", as opposed to "I need to cut my mum off because she's a bigot who won't even respect my pronouns". You may have to bite your tongue and grit your teeth as you do it, but tough love seldom works in these cases.

My perspective on this is as someone who previously felt I was non binary for around 3 years. I know there's a discussion in this thread about what non-binary is so I'll share my own experience - I became really uncomfortable with being referred to as "she", thinking of myself as a woman, having breasts etc. Not in a "oh that's boring I want something more spicy" way, it would genuinely upset me and to this day I have no idea why, it just felt incredibly wrong. Stereotypes, jobs and gender roles never played into it, I've always been a feminist, it was just a really deep discomfort with the idea of being a woman, but I felt exactly the same when I tried to think about myself with male pronouns etc. Non-binary felt a bit like a "catch-all", if I wasn't happy with woman or man it must be non-binary kind of thing.

One day I felt the same aversion to being referred to as "they". I went back to "she" and felt more comfortable (it still isn't 100% - the dentist asked me the other day if it was Miss or Mrs and I hate both of those and avoid giving a title wherever possible, but I settled on Ms 😅). To this day I have no idea what happened to my brain to make me feel this way (I mean, I have a fair idea - I was going through a traumatic time, I'm ND, I have a brain tumour so personality changes maybe?!) but that's why I err on a neutral stance - being supportive and encouraging the person to work through their feelings rather than trying to ignore or stifle them, but also warning against long term interventions. I am so glad I never went beyond a binder (which helped the body dysmorphia / dysphoria at the time).

This is a really insightful , balanced perspective and advice.

Highlighting it for you OP x

Thoughtsonallsorts · 05/01/2025 11:52

starlight889 · 05/01/2025 11:07

As I have just told you, I am not laughing at the children going NC, I am laughing at all you ridiculous parents who think it is okay to be homophobic/transphobic to your children and then say you have no idea why they don’t talk to you anymore.

Show quote history

I have read the whole thread & I haven't seen one homophobic post. The vast majority of posters have stated they would support their child although they would have to be old enough before making final decisions given for many it is a phase where guidance is the most appropriate action. There have been a few posters who don't believe in the possibility of being trans. We can't expect everyone to have the same view. If those parents had children who reached adulthood & after serious counselling they wanted to transition I have no doubt they would support them. This thread is about vulnerable children not about adults who have parents who are disputing their decisions in life.

Lostcat · 05/01/2025 11:53

I have read the whole thread & I haven't seen one homophobic post

I suggest reading again!

BreatheAndFocus · 05/01/2025 12:08

SoNiceToComeHomeTo · 05/01/2025 11:51

@BreatheAndFocus Yes, I'm sure it is common, and I think that this may be the kind of feeling that is prompting young people to identify as non-binary. Any kind of new definition of such a person is unnecessary.
I'm not sure where the idea has come from where I am claiming to be unusual. I'm just trying to empathise with what OP's son may be experiencing. Perhaps these discussions are best kept off social media because it is hard to correct a misconception once it has taken hold.
I'm going to stop posting here now.

Show quote history

Please don’t stop posting on my behalf @SoNiceToComeHomeTo . I apologise if I misunderstood you. If you’re saying that this child thinks he’s NB for the reason you gave, or similar related reasons, then I agree. I do think children are taking normal feelings and labelling them as ‘special’ (might be the wrong word) and in need of a label, when they’re just normal feelings.

starlight889 · 05/01/2025 12:12

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Cailin66 · 05/01/2025 12:14

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Seeing as the thread is filled with homophobic and transphobic posts you’ll have no problem link us to say about 5 of them? Otherwise you’re talking rubbish.

starlight889 · 05/01/2025 12:16

Cailin66 · 05/01/2025 12:14

Seeing as the thread is filled with homophobic and transphobic posts you’ll have no problem link us to say about 5 of them? Otherwise you’re talking rubbish.

Show quote history

There’s nearly 30 pages, have a scroll through.

Of the top of my head I remember comments such as “there’s no such thing as transgender” and “what absolutely rubbish a child saying they’re bisexual”. I’m sure you get the gist.

Even if you’re provided with these comments, you’ll never believe you or other transphobic/homophobic exist or are in the wrong.

popeydokey · 05/01/2025 12:20

iwentjasonwaterfalls · 05/01/2025 11:03

I think there has to be a middle ground between some of the very polarised opinions here, because we're not dealing with an ideology, we're dealing with an actual child, at a time where hormones are rife and different influences are battling for control and emotions are incredibly high.

A lot of trans circles/communities, especially online, advocate for cutting off anyone who doesn't immediately and unquestioningly support. That's not healthy; there are reasons to cut family members out and I have absolutely done it myself, but it isn't healthy to cut off parents at such a young age for a reason like this - but you have to be aware that it's a possibility if those are their influences (I'm choosing to use they/them pronouns for your child, that's not me suggesting anyone is compelled to). Responding with some of the things suggested in this thread - total refusal to entertain the idea etc - will risk driving them further away.

There's a middle ground where you can support the child without supporting the path they're on. It might mean using they/them pronouns, if that's their biggest bugbear at the moment, but it leaves the door open to them hearing your concerns about more permanent choices down the road like surgery and hormones. Your concerns then are perceived as "my mum really cares about me and wants me to consider every option carefully", as opposed to "I need to cut my mum off because she's a bigot who won't even respect my pronouns". You may have to bite your tongue and grit your teeth as you do it, but tough love seldom works in these cases.

My perspective on this is as someone who previously felt I was non binary for around 3 years. I know there's a discussion in this thread about what non-binary is so I'll share my own experience - I became really uncomfortable with being referred to as "she", thinking of myself as a woman, having breasts etc. Not in a "oh that's boring I want something more spicy" way, it would genuinely upset me and to this day I have no idea why, it just felt incredibly wrong. Stereotypes, jobs and gender roles never played into it, I've always been a feminist, it was just a really deep discomfort with the idea of being a woman, but I felt exactly the same when I tried to think about myself with male pronouns etc. Non-binary felt a bit like a "catch-all", if I wasn't happy with woman or man it must be non-binary kind of thing.

One day I felt the same aversion to being referred to as "they". I went back to "she" and felt more comfortable (it still isn't 100% - the dentist asked me the other day if it was Miss or Mrs and I hate both of those and avoid giving a title wherever possible, but I settled on Ms 😅). To this day I have no idea what happened to my brain to make me feel this way (I mean, I have a fair idea - I was going through a traumatic time, I'm ND, I have a brain tumour so personality changes maybe?!) but that's why I err on a neutral stance - being supportive and encouraging the person to work through their feelings rather than trying to ignore or stifle them, but also warning against long term interventions. I am so glad I never went beyond a binder (which helped the body dysmorphia / dysphoria at the time).

That's really interesting. (Let's hope the determined derailers don't pretend you're insisting OP's child must have a brain tumour....!)

Do you think you disliked the idea of having a physical form/body at all - one that could be messy, go wrong, cause you discomfort? Or was it more the 'sexed' bits of the body?

Cailin66 · 05/01/2025 12:21

JustCrow · 02/01/2025 21:55

You need to treat this the same as if you would if he announced he identified as a cat.

“Ok sweetheart. Well you
know you’re not a cat. You’re a human and of course I’m not going to pretend you’re a cat because that wouldn’t be true”.

And I would be going fucking POSTAL at the school.

Speaking of school, there’s a court order in Scotland that a dog must go to school.

Lostcat · 05/01/2025 12:21

starlight889 · 05/01/2025 12:16

There’s nearly 30 pages, have a scroll through.

Of the top of my head I remember comments such as “there’s no such thing as transgender” and “what absolutely rubbish a child saying they’re bisexual”. I’m sure you get the gist.

Even if you’re provided with these comments, you’ll never believe you or other transphobic/homophobic exist or are in the wrong.

Show quote history

This

Pclou45 · 05/01/2025 12:38

Yes I have been through it, about 4/5 years ago. My child has just turned 20. They are happy and secure in who they are and it did not lead to anything more than that. Just keep an open mind, love them, accept them, and you will get used to it in the end. I know it is an initial shock and it does take time but try not to worry. You and they will encounter a lot of ignorance but try not to make a big deal of it and see how it goes as they get older. If this is who they are, and remains so, then remind yourself they have not changed, just their pronouns and gender identity have. It's great that they trusted you enough to share this with you. As for the age, my kid assures me that they knew they felt different to their friends when they were very young but they only really discovered what it meant as they moved through their teenage years.

This is anecdotal i.e. not based on anything other than my limited experience in my wider friendship group, but the parents who reject or belittle their kids' "choice" (hint - it's not a choice) are the ones whose kids don't keep in close or indeed any contact with them when they leave home. My kid and I message every day and see each other every month if we can (they live quite far away now with work) but they hardly speak to their dad who insists on using their wrong pronouns out of spite and fighting with them about it, which has caused them a huge amount of pain and feeling rejected. I am sad about that but I can't fix it, all I can do is love them as best I can.

This may not be relevant but my child is also diagnosed AuDHD - there can be a link with that and feeling disassociated with their place and identity in the world. Also can I suggest you Google articles on misgendering and the effect this can have particularly on young people, unsurprisingly there is quite a lot there. Good luck.

iwentjasonwaterfalls · 05/01/2025 12:50

popeydokey · 05/01/2025 12:20

That's really interesting. (Let's hope the determined derailers don't pretend you're insisting OP's child must have a brain tumour....!)

Do you think you disliked the idea of having a physical form/body at all - one that could be messy, go wrong, cause you discomfort? Or was it more the 'sexed' bits of the body?

Show quote history

That's a really good question and something I haven't really examined in too much detail before. I've always had body image issues. I would say the gender issues focused primarily on breasts - I never had any issues with nor any desire to modify my genitalia - so it's a difficult one to say for sure!

stomachamelon · 05/01/2025 13:06

I have read through this whole thread and found it thought provoking and I just wanted to say...
I teach someone at school who is 'they'. I personally have quite strong feelings about the whole trans thing (based partly on upbringing, religion and education) but in the flesh it's been quite different for me.

I work in a tough environment (unit) and generally 30 excluded, behavioually challenged students can remember not to misengender them and be polite and respectful it's the least I can do. It matters to them. They happily correct and don't push it and mum is partially on board (it's the end result of lots of changes/ trying things/ new names etc)

I know it's all the 'be kind' thing but I feel we are doing the right thing by them.

maltravers · 05/01/2025 13:09

One day Starlight you may have kids of your own. We love them so much and have tried to both protect them and let them be their own person as they grow.
It may be no big deal to you that there are ghouls out there persuading kids to be frightened of puberty, to mess up their beautiful healthy bodies with cross sex hormones, to have their bodies surgically altered. it’s a big deal to me and to the other mums here. You come for our kids, you had better expect some almighty resistance. You may say that this is just about pronouns, in that case maybe “educate yourself”. Signing off now as I have work to do.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 05/01/2025 13:09

starlight889 · 05/01/2025 11:07

As I have just told you, I am not laughing at the children going NC, I am laughing at all you ridiculous parents who think it is okay to be homophobic/transphobic to your children and then say you have no idea why they don’t talk to you anymore.

Show quote history

There are no ridiculous parents on here. I suspect you're not a parent and also that you have no clue about what happens to children alienated fron their parents. Children looked after outside their families have the worst outcomes in all aspects of life chances - educationally, employment, mental and physical health, housing etc. There's endless national data showing this. It's why society has rigorous procedures to monitor these children and try to repair the damage.

One of the most unforgivable behaviours of transactivists is their readiness to persuade children that if a parent disagrees with them, they're being "transphobic" and the child should cut them off. The damage done is immense yet there's zero insight or care about the consequences for the individual child. As I said - unforgivable using of children for a "political " cause.

Almn0etd · 05/01/2025 13:12

So the school kept his potential mental illness from you? Take action. That’s a safeguarding issue that the school kept from you something that you as a parent should know.

And there is no such thing as ‘they’. Unless he is more than one human being, complete with 2 sets of everything, all at the same time.

starlight889 · 05/01/2025 13:23

MrsOvertonsWindow · 05/01/2025 13:09

There are no ridiculous parents on here. I suspect you're not a parent and also that you have no clue about what happens to children alienated fron their parents. Children looked after outside their families have the worst outcomes in all aspects of life chances - educationally, employment, mental and physical health, housing etc. There's endless national data showing this. It's why society has rigorous procedures to monitor these children and try to repair the damage.

One of the most unforgivable behaviours of transactivists is their readiness to persuade children that if a parent disagrees with them, they're being "transphobic" and the child should cut them off. The damage done is immense yet there's zero insight or care about the consequences for the individual child. As I said - unforgivable using of children for a "political " cause.

Show quote history

I am a parent.

I am not talking about children (under 18) I am talking about ADULT children. As I have stated many times.

I am not saying your 13 year old is going to disappear one day. I am saying it would be no surprise when an adult child decides they have had enough.

I am also not talking about a disagreeing parent that is still supportive and tries to understand, I am talking about parents that have absolutely no leeway with understanding and think their view is the only way.

blubberyboo · 05/01/2025 13:27

Tell him that you are non binary too and evidence it by the fact that you wear trousers.
His dad too

Nothing will turn him off the latest fad quicker than his parents doing the same thing

MrsOvertonsWindow · 05/01/2025 13:35

starlight889 · 05/01/2025 13:23

I am a parent.

I am not talking about children (under 18) I am talking about ADULT children. As I have stated many times.

I am not saying your 13 year old is going to disappear one day. I am saying it would be no surprise when an adult child decides they have had enough.

I am also not talking about a disagreeing parent that is still supportive and tries to understand, I am talking about parents that have absolutely no leeway with understanding and think their view is the only way.

Show quote history

The thread is about a child. You said:

"..I am not laughing at the children going NC, I am laughing at all you ridiculous parents who think it is okay to be homophobic/transphobic to your children and then say you have no idea why they don’t talk to you anymore"

You were talking about children.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 05/01/2025 13:38

MrsOvertonsWindow · 05/01/2025 13:35

The thread is about a child. You said:

"..I am not laughing at the children going NC, I am laughing at all you ridiculous parents who think it is okay to be homophobic/transphobic to your children and then say you have no idea why they don’t talk to you anymore"

You were talking about children.

Show quote history

To be fair, you may have been trying to speak only about adults - it is a regular feature of transactivists to respond to issues about children by talking about adults - it blurs the issues and attempts to make the unacceptable somehow palatable. However, in this instance, you specifically talked about children.

So why is it that you're so keen to promote breaking up families?

starlight889 · 05/01/2025 13:41

MrsOvertonsWindow · 05/01/2025 13:35

The thread is about a child. You said:

"..I am not laughing at the children going NC, I am laughing at all you ridiculous parents who think it is okay to be homophobic/transphobic to your children and then say you have no idea why they don’t talk to you anymore"

You were talking about children.

Show quote history

I think I know who I am talking about. Go back to my original comments and you will see.

In no way am I saying a teenager is going to go no contact. As you will see with my replies I have stated multiple times “as soon as they can” meaning when they’re adults.

Barbie222 · 05/01/2025 13:50

I am saying it would be no surprise when an adult child decides they have had enough.

What about the adult children we hear of who are angry that their parents didn't challenge them about going down a medicalised pathway when they were teens and have been left with damaged bodies as a result? Their voices are just as valid here.

OP would have no power to stop her adult child making this kind of decision. But she is for sure right in being wary of affirming that her 13 year ok child is non -binary, because it opens the door to a medical pathway which historically has been very clearly: affirmative care - puberty blockers - gender affirming hormones and surgery as an adult, which we are now learning has very major drawbacks for the individual.

It is disingenuous to suggest that affirming these beliefs is part of maintaining a neutral, wait and see stance with a teen. Affirming is not being neutral here.

TheKeatingFive · 05/01/2025 14:05

stomachamelon · 05/01/2025 13:06

I have read through this whole thread and found it thought provoking and I just wanted to say...
I teach someone at school who is 'they'. I personally have quite strong feelings about the whole trans thing (based partly on upbringing, religion and education) but in the flesh it's been quite different for me.

I work in a tough environment (unit) and generally 30 excluded, behavioually challenged students can remember not to misengender them and be polite and respectful it's the least I can do. It matters to them. They happily correct and don't push it and mum is partially on board (it's the end result of lots of changes/ trying things/ new names etc)

I know it's all the 'be kind' thing but I feel we are doing the right thing by them.

I understand why you think the way you do.

However I'm not sure the world is always as straightforward a place as we'd like to think.

With my cousin's child (I relayed the story upthread), plenty of people affirmed her, thinking they were doing the right thing. In retrospect now, it's clear that this helped take her down a path that wasn't right for her and has caused long term medical issues.

The really scary thing with this whole transitioning journey is when and how you put the breaks on if needed - with regards to hormones and surgery. As the Cass report makes clear, as soon as you socially transition, you influence that path. Some children might find it easy to backtrack or put the breaks on if they need to, but others may not.

The whole thing is fraught.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 05/01/2025 14:11

TheKeatingFive · 05/01/2025 14:05

I understand why you think the way you do.

However I'm not sure the world is always as straightforward a place as we'd like to think.

With my cousin's child (I relayed the story upthread), plenty of people affirmed her, thinking they were doing the right thing. In retrospect now, it's clear that this helped take her down a path that wasn't right for her and has caused long term medical issues.

The really scary thing with this whole transitioning journey is when and how you put the breaks on if needed - with regards to hormones and surgery. As the Cass report makes clear, as soon as you socially transition, you influence that path. Some children might find it easy to backtrack or put the breaks on if they need to, but others may not.

The whole thing is fraught.

Show quote history

In response to this wise post, here's a clinical psychologist's view of the damage we do to teenagers when agreeing that they're really the opposite sex to their biological sex:
https://www.transgendertrend.com/teenager-says-theyre-transgender/

I'm not a psychologist but would suggest that many of the points about falsely affirming they're the opposite sex might be applicable to agreeing with a child that they have no biological sex (if that's what non binary means)?

When a teenager says they're transgender - Transgender Trend

What's the best approach when a teenager says they're transgender? Are there risks in the affirmation and social transition approach?

https://www.transgendertrend.com/teenager-says-theyre-transgender

Thoughtsonallsorts · 05/01/2025 14:34

TheKeatingFive · 05/01/2025 14:05

I understand why you think the way you do.

However I'm not sure the world is always as straightforward a place as we'd like to think.

With my cousin's child (I relayed the story upthread), plenty of people affirmed her, thinking they were doing the right thing. In retrospect now, it's clear that this helped take her down a path that wasn't right for her and has caused long term medical issues.

The really scary thing with this whole transitioning journey is when and how you put the breaks on if needed - with regards to hormones and surgery. As the Cass report makes clear, as soon as you socially transition, you influence that path. Some children might find it easy to backtrack or put the breaks on if they need to, but others may not.

The whole thing is fraught.

Show quote history

Excellent post. I'm so sorry to see this happened to your cousins child. It's one of the many reasons I feel differently. I would never agree to affirmation of a childs proclamation about being anything other than what was in front of me since the day they were born. This is especially given a child does not have the developmental capacity to understand the long term implications involved.I would guide them by letting them know their feelings are always valid at the same time letting them know it's impossible to make life changing decisions at such a young age. Come back to me when you leave school & we will have a serious chat about the way forward. Your parents will support you no matter what you decide.