Son has just told us he is non binary

[Chipshopninja]

13 years old

Wants us to use they/them

He came out as Bi a a couple of years ago and I was fine with that but this has really hit me hard

I'm terrified that this is going to lead to hormones and surgery.

Don't know why I'm posting tbh but feeling crappy because I didn't handle it well. I cried.

I can't call him my son anymore

He's my only child

Has anyone else been through this?

It wasn’t about you specifically. But the statement stands.

Obsessing about pronouns and ‘identity’ is a ludicrously privileged thing to do. In developing countries it’s almost unheard of.

Not a psychiatrist although I do work with lots of pyscholgists , I didn't suggest OP's son is autistic, I work in safeguarding.

Gender confusion is over represented in children who have been exposed to trauma and/ or are neurodivergent. The findings of the Cass report are very clear- they are also clear that " social transition" is not pyschologically neutral. Have you read it ?

The PSHE curriculum goes into detail about anti-scientific, regressive guff like ‘non-binary’?

Depressing.

This is where I get totally lost.
Your daughter indentfies as male has started taking testosterone and now likes to dress up as a man pretending to be a woman ? It's worthy of Shakespeare's 12th night. I just hope the testosterone doesn't do too much damage to her female body.

Jobs aren't male or female, what do you mean by this ?

So, you can't define it?
It would be very helpful if you could.

Because as I see it, it can't be defined, so prove me wrong. I'm willing to listen.

If you're not prepared to try, you just end up sounding like one of those people who go on about things like..."Prince Harry had an affair with a banana, it's widely reported overseas... No I won't find an article to back up my claims, as it said easy just to find it yourself if only you could be bothered..."

So, if you're unable to say what non-binary is, or even what it means to you, the I can I only conclude that you can't, and my presumption is that it is impossible for you to actually define it, because you would need to either rely on gender stereotypes or deny sex. So, I'm very willing to be proved wrong.

So, let us all know what you say non-binary is.

Otherwise I shall carry on believing that it is all meaningless.

Yes I read it.

One of the (many) points it missed is that not socially transitioning is also and equally not “psychologically neutral”.

I note your use of the terminology “gender confusion”.

I concur there’s certainly an overlap between neurodivergence (and perhaps some evidence suggests disability more broadly) and gender diversity.

at’s fine. It’s not very grown to tell people if they don’t agree with you they need to grow up but I guess that’s what we get from mumsnet🤷🏼‍♀️

i dint think your above response was very grownup either

going non contact can be very distressing for the child involved…its not funny at all

The managment of children with gender confusion, fluidity or incongruence ( sorry I am not which one we are using this week) is undoubtedly complex and nuanced, which is why " affirmation without question" is so harmful. These children need support and guidance not unquestioning wholesale acceptance of a different identity.

Keep being clear that he can be any type of boy he wants, growing into any type of man. It's fine to be a boy/man with the personality traits that society more generally expects of girls/women, and vice versa. Remind him of the difference between sex (male/female, objectively real, determined at conception and recorded at birth) and gender (masculine/feminine, socially constructed and subjective according to time and place). If he's being bullied or made fun of because of a 'feminine' appearance or interests, support him and advocate for him. Gently let him know that he doesn't and can't control other people's language. If he wants to believe that his set of personality traits overrides his biological sex then he can go ahead and believe that, but he can't insist that other people believe it, or pretend to believe it by using the language he wants them to use.

I note your use of the terminology “gender confusion” *which is also of course far from neutral.

Please tell me what to call it then ? We used gender dysphoria but that was medicalising so then we used gender incongruence but since Cass that suggests that a child's ( and I am talking about children here) perception of their ender was fixed when we know it isn't. Gender fluidity is also problematic.What term should we use ?

undoubtedly complex and nuanced

agree.

These children need support and guidance not unquestioning wholesale acceptance of a different identity

I don’t see that acceptance of a person should ever been seen as a problem. That doesn’t mean you don’t help them to explore/ unpack/ navigate.

You don’t think it’s grown up to say that if you’re rude, disrespectful and hurtful to your children they’re probably going to not want to talk to you once they’ve had enough?

Also, who said it’s funny? No one said that but you. It may be painful for some but I can guarantee for 99% it’s a massive relief to have someone so toxic finally out their life.

I don’t think gender incongruence necessarily implies things are fixed, but I take your point that it is still perhaps too narrow. In clincal settings I think “children experiencing issues with gender” is probably the best we have. Of course “issues” still has some negative connotations, but it doesn’t make any assumptions about what those “issues” are and I suppose there’s some justification in arguing that there must be issues of some variety since they are seeking clinical support.

In wider social contexts I really don’t see what’s wrong simply with gender diversity, or gender minority experience.

Don’t be surprised when all your children suddenly go no contact as soon as they can🤣

you literally used a laughing face

I don’t think its grown up to use a laughing face

Oopsie

i don’t think its grownup to use a laughing face for such a sad thing

You don’t think it’s grown up to say that if you’re rude, disrespectful and hurtful to your children they’re probably going to not want to talk to you once they’ve had enough?

and this was NOT what i was responding to

I think there has to be a middle ground between some of the very polarised opinions here, because we're not dealing with an ideology, we're dealing with an actual child, at a time where hormones are rife and different influences are battling for control and emotions are incredibly high.

A lot of trans circles/communities, especially online, advocate for cutting off anyone who doesn't immediately and unquestioningly support. That's not healthy; there are reasons to cut family members out and I have absolutely done it myself, but it isn't healthy to cut off parents at such a young age for a reason like this - but you have to be aware that it's a possibility if those are their influences (I'm choosing to use they/them pronouns for your child, that's not me suggesting anyone is compelled to). Responding with some of the things suggested in this thread - total refusal to entertain the idea etc - will risk driving them further away.

There's a middle ground where you can support the child without supporting the path they're on. It might mean using they/them pronouns, if that's their biggest bugbear at the moment, but it leaves the door open to them hearing your concerns about more permanent choices down the road like surgery and hormones. Your concerns then are perceived as "my mum really cares about me and wants me to consider every option carefully", as opposed to "I need to cut my mum off because she's a bigot who won't even respect my pronouns". You may have to bite your tongue and grit your teeth as you do it, but tough love seldom works in these cases.

My perspective on this is as someone who previously felt I was non binary for around 3 years. I know there's a discussion in this thread about what non-binary is so I'll share my own experience - I became really uncomfortable with being referred to as "she", thinking of myself as a woman, having breasts etc. Not in a "oh that's boring I want something more spicy" way, it would genuinely upset me and to this day I have no idea why, it just felt incredibly wrong. Stereotypes, jobs and gender roles never played into it, I've always been a feminist, it was just a really deep discomfort with the idea of being a woman, but I felt exactly the same when I tried to think about myself with male pronouns etc. Non-binary felt a bit like a "catch-all", if I wasn't happy with woman or man it must be non-binary kind of thing.

One day I felt the same aversion to being referred to as "they". I went back to "she" and felt more comfortable (it still isn't 100% - the dentist asked me the other day if it was Miss or Mrs and I hate both of those and avoid giving a title wherever possible, but I settled on Ms 😅). To this day I have no idea what happened to my brain to make me feel this way (I mean, I have a fair idea - I was going through a traumatic time, I'm ND, I have a brain tumour so personality changes maybe?!) but that's why I err on a neutral stance - being supportive and encouraging the person to work through their feelings rather than trying to ignore or stifle them, but also warning against long term interventions. I am so glad I never went beyond a binder (which helped the body dysmorphia / dysphoria at the time).

As I have just told you, I am not laughing at the children going NC, I am laughing at all you ridiculous parents who think it is okay to be homophobic/transphobic to your children and then say you have no idea why they don’t talk to you anymore.

.

Surely that’s very common though - the way you felt/thought? I remember being at school and my female friends and I playing games where we were famous characters (real or imaginary), most of whom were male. I also remember wanting to be an astronaut when I saw Neil Armstrong and others on TV. But that was because of the job he was doing, not his sex.

Thinking about it more, on every occasion I wanted to be like X, there was a reason unrelated to the sex of that person, eg because they had a job I wanted, because they had a cool vibe, a good sense of humour, etc. So, for example, if I’d wanted to be a radio DJ, I wouldn’t have felt compelled to name Annie Nightingale simply because I’m female and so was she. I simply chose the DJ who I thought was cool, popular or who I liked best.

I genuinely don’t think we’re alone in that.

And now with the ‘you’ 😒

@BreatheAndFocus Yes, I'm sure it is common, and I think that this may be the kind of feeling that is prompting young people to identify as non-binary. Any kind of new definition of such a person is unnecessary.
I'm not sure where the idea has come from where I am claiming to be unusual. I'm just trying to empathise with what OP's son may be experiencing. Perhaps these discussions are best kept off social media because it is hard to correct a misconception once it has taken hold.
I'm going to stop posting here now.